Comments on: Busting The “Drive Till You Qualify” Myth http://hugeasscity.com/2008/04/14/busting-the-drive-till-you-qualify-myth/ > so much wonderful packaged in such a mess Fri, 10 Feb 2012 14:54:55 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.1 hourly 1 By: Jeremy Jobst http://hugeasscity.com/2008/04/14/busting-the-drive-till-you-qualify-myth/comment-page-1/#comment-177189 Jeremy Jobst Wed, 24 Mar 2010 03:52:23 +0000 http://noisetank.com/hugeasscity/2008/04/14/busting-the-drive-till-you-qualify-myth/#comment-177189 This is a good approach to what, for some, may be a controversial topic. Very well though out post. - I am an only child. I have one sister. - Woody Allen Born 1935 This is a good approach to what, for some, may be a controversial topic. Very well though out post. – I am an only child. I have one sister. – Woody Allen Born 1935

]]> By: Yes Virginia, Density Causes Sprawl—Lorax Edition | hugeasscity http://hugeasscity.com/2008/04/14/busting-the-drive-till-you-qualify-myth/comment-page-1/#comment-80922 Yes Virginia, Density Causes Sprawl—Lorax Edition | hugeasscity Wed, 23 Dec 2009 19:13:50 +0000 http://noisetank.com/hugeasscity/2008/04/14/busting-the-drive-till-you-qualify-myth/#comment-80922 [...] that is not the operative dynamic in a growing city like Seattle. Here, people opt for the fringe because they don’t have the means to afford Seattle. And that’s because demand for [...] [...] that is not the operative dynamic in a growing city like Seattle. Here, people opt for the fringe because they don’t have the means to afford Seattle. And that’s because demand for [...]

]]> By: Michael http://hugeasscity.com/2008/04/14/busting-the-drive-till-you-qualify-myth/comment-page-1/#comment-526 Michael Mon, 13 Jul 2009 06:24:23 +0000 http://noisetank.com/hugeasscity/2008/04/14/busting-the-drive-till-you-qualify-myth/#comment-526 Actually, the "data-based dose of reality" is when you look at the map and see that the people WITHIN the City of Seattle with lower transpo costs are the ones who either: - Live where they work (Downtown/Belltown) - Live immediately adjacent to the most major bus corridors (Rainier Ave, Northgate, U District). Everyone else suffers from our extreme deficiency in mass transit - a city our size should be using shorter bus routes connecting to train/streetcar hubs...but there are no trains or streetcars. So to avoid spending hours each day traveling merely within the city limits, most of us drive and pay the necessary fees. And those people who DO choose to transfer two and three times and walk up to a half-mile to and from work spend more of their time commuting than many suburbanites. (But we all know the average bus rider's time isn't worth that much, right?) I just find it really amusing that this debate is going on in this city at this time. In 2075 or whenever our toy rail line actually starts serving neighborhoods, let's talk about whether it's worth it to live in the city. Right now it's basically a wash. Actually, the “data-based dose of reality” is when you look at the map and see that the people WITHIN the City of Seattle with lower transpo costs are the ones who either:

- Live where they work (Downtown/Belltown)
- Live immediately adjacent to the most major bus corridors (Rainier Ave, Northgate, U District).

Everyone else suffers from our extreme deficiency in mass transit – a city our size should be using shorter bus routes connecting to train/streetcar hubs…but there are no trains or streetcars.

So to avoid spending hours each day traveling merely within the city limits, most of us drive and pay the necessary fees. And those people who DO choose to transfer two and three times and walk up to a half-mile to and from work spend more of their time commuting than many suburbanites. (But we all know the average bus rider’s time isn’t worth that much, right?)

I just find it really amusing that this debate is going on in this city at this time. In 2075 or whenever our toy rail line actually starts serving neighborhoods, let’s talk about whether it’s worth it to live in the city. Right now it’s basically a wash.

]]> By: The Only Problem With The Proposed Seattle Housing Levy Is That It Isn’t Big Enough | hugeasscity http://hugeasscity.com/2008/04/14/busting-the-drive-till-you-qualify-myth/comment-page-1/#comment-525 The Only Problem With The Proposed Seattle Housing Levy Is That It Isn’t Big Enough | hugeasscity Sun, 12 Jul 2009 14:26:06 +0000 http://noisetank.com/hugeasscity/2008/04/14/busting-the-drive-till-you-qualify-myth/#comment-525 [...] the social fabric of local communities, but also compromises regional sustainability via the “drive ’til you qualify” effect, which exacerbates sprawl and long commutes.  Historically, the demand for housing levy [...] [...] the social fabric of local communities, but also compromises regional sustainability via the “drive ’til you qualify” effect, which exacerbates sprawl and long commutes.  Historically, the demand for housing levy [...]

]]> By: guide uk casino http://hugeasscity.com/2008/04/14/busting-the-drive-till-you-qualify-myth/comment-page-1/#comment-524 guide uk casino Sun, 27 Jul 2008 10:41:33 +0000 http://noisetank.com/hugeasscity/2008/04/14/busting-the-drive-till-you-qualify-myth/#comment-524 guide uk casino <a href="http://freeiq.com/brooklyn48?fullbio=1" rel="nofollow">casino guide best</a> guide uk casino casino guide best

]]> By: john of humdinger http://hugeasscity.com/2008/04/14/busting-the-drive-till-you-qualify-myth/comment-page-1/#comment-523 john of humdinger Fri, 18 Apr 2008 00:50:00 +0000 http://noisetank.com/hugeasscity/2008/04/14/busting-the-drive-till-you-qualify-myth/#comment-523 DanB wrote: "I would argue that there is, in fact, and universal best buy. It’s one that betters quality of life for the buyer without harming others or compromising quality of life for future generations." For the universal bestbuy to exist we must believe in a super big brother who defines the components of the best buy, such as "quality of life". This has been done many times over the centuries. It wasn't all that long ago that big brother told us to burn a few children every few months in order to keep the gods happy and thereby improve the quality of our lives. Today big brother tells us its OK to kill 4-month old unborn babies, but we are forbidden to kill 200-year old redwood trees. Throughout history the popular edicts of temporarily respected big brothers are seen to be ridiculous in retrospect. Do the sheeple make bad choices sometimes? 'Depends on who is the judge and the jury. DanB wrote: “I would argue that there is, in fact, and universal best buy. It’s one that betters quality of life for the buyer without harming others or compromising quality of life for future generations.”

For the universal bestbuy to exist we must believe in a super big brother who defines the components of the best buy, such as “quality of life”. This has been done many times over the centuries. It wasn’t all that long ago that big brother told us to burn a few children every few months in order to keep the gods happy and thereby improve the quality of our lives. Today big brother tells us its OK to kill 4-month old unborn babies, but we are forbidden to kill 200-year old redwood trees. Throughout history the popular edicts of temporarily respected big brothers are seen to be ridiculous in retrospect.

Do the sheeple make bad choices sometimes?
‘Depends on who is the judge and the jury.

]]> By: Dan Staley http://hugeasscity.com/2008/04/14/busting-the-drive-till-you-qualify-myth/comment-page-1/#comment-522 Dan Staley Thu, 17 Apr 2008 12:15:07 +0000 http://noisetank.com/hugeasscity/2008/04/14/busting-the-drive-till-you-qualify-myth/#comment-522 The Murrican culture has glorified individualism too*, which has helped to contribute to sprawl and many's dislike of density. Folk, when surveyed, understand the benefits of other ways of living, as they desire walkable neighborhoods by a large margin. They desire neighborhoods with lots of amenities. They desire attractive streetscapes. They also desire to find a bank to take the mortgage close in if they are serious about acquiring these amenities, and if they have kids, they desire to find a decent school system. *Rugged individualists, marching in lockstep is the modern paradigm. The Murrican culture has glorified individualism too*, which has helped to contribute to sprawl and many’s dislike of density. Folk, when surveyed, understand the benefits of other ways of living, as they desire walkable neighborhoods by a large margin. They desire neighborhoods with lots of amenities. They desire attractive streetscapes.

They also desire to find a bank to take the mortgage close in if they are serious about acquiring these amenities, and if they have kids, they desire to find a decent school system.

*Rugged individualists, marching in lockstep is the modern paradigm.

]]> By: wizard http://hugeasscity.com/2008/04/14/busting-the-drive-till-you-qualify-myth/comment-page-1/#comment-521 wizard Wed, 16 Apr 2008 06:47:21 +0000 http://noisetank.com/hugeasscity/2008/04/14/busting-the-drive-till-you-qualify-myth/#comment-521 Gosh vanderleun, thanks for the compliment. "wizard," I like that. Cause after all, this blog is all about me trying to look smart. $30/hr was just a number to put it in perspective. If you happened to be a parent and you spent that hour a day giving your kids quality attention, it would probably be more like $1000/hr, if you could quantify all the potential benefits, which of course you can't. No doubt many people feel that their long commute is a trade off that's worth it. But I'll say it again: fewer would feel that way if they were paying the full costs of their lifestyles. And to that I'll add: I believe that American culture has glorified the suburban way of life to such a degree that many people do not have a realistic perception of other ways of living and the benefits they can offer. Gosh vanderleun, thanks for the compliment. “wizard,” I like that. Cause after all, this blog is all about me trying to look smart.

$30/hr was just a number to put it in perspective. If you happened to be a parent and you spent that hour a day giving your kids quality attention, it would probably be more like $1000/hr, if you could quantify all the potential benefits, which of course you can’t.

No doubt many people feel that their long commute is a trade off that’s worth it. But I’ll say it again: fewer would feel that way if they were paying the full costs of their lifestyles. And to that I’ll add: I believe that American culture has glorified the suburban way of life to such a degree that many people do not have a realistic perception of other ways of living and the benefits they can offer.

]]> By: vanderleun http://hugeasscity.com/2008/04/14/busting-the-drive-till-you-qualify-myth/comment-page-1/#comment-520 vanderleun Tue, 15 Apr 2008 16:04:50 +0000 http://noisetank.com/hugeasscity/2008/04/14/busting-the-drive-till-you-qualify-myth/#comment-520 "So no, sprawl is not destiny, but rather the result of ill-informed decision making." Yes, if only people such as your informed self could rule the Earth what a bright world it would be! Note to wizard: People do not generally do time-benefit analysis on their lives, but prefer to live as they prefer to live. It's not all money, is it? “So no, sprawl is not destiny, but rather the result of ill-informed decision making.”

Yes, if only people such as your informed self could rule the Earth what a bright world it would be!

Note to wizard: People do not generally do time-benefit analysis on their lives, but prefer to live as they prefer to live. It’s not all money, is it?

]]> By: Dan Staley http://hugeasscity.com/2008/04/14/busting-the-drive-till-you-qualify-myth/comment-page-1/#comment-519 Dan Staley Tue, 15 Apr 2008 12:24:02 +0000 http://noisetank.com/hugeasscity/2008/04/14/busting-the-drive-till-you-qualify-myth/#comment-519 And <b>I'm</b> saying that if we had a full understanding of the large fraction of the population that doesn't mind (for whatever reason, such as the prestige Madison Ave has imparted on them for purchasing that car) spending an hour in their car, we'd offer a broad range of strategies to entice folks with families into denser neighborhoods. A good start is dumping Euclidean zoning. Not a good start is paying all externalities, as that would end global capitalism - I don't want to be around for that fight. Peak oil will do that job; sensitive, knowledgeable, caring, other-regarding people won't, as there's not enough to create a critical mass to replace a system that depends upon willful or selective or imposed ignorance of full costs and externalities to work. I'm all for paying somewhere closer to full costs and avoiding costs, and I'm not glad these energy-seeking food shortages are making people hungry (as was expected), but I'm glad they are pointing out the fragility of our constructed and continued exploitative existence on this planet. Hmmm...maybe I'll write these after I'm fully caffeinated. And I’m saying that if we had a full understanding of the large fraction of the population that doesn’t mind (for whatever reason, such as the prestige Madison Ave has imparted on them for purchasing that car) spending an hour in their car, we’d offer a broad range of strategies to entice folks with families into denser neighborhoods. A good start is dumping Euclidean zoning. Not a good start is paying all externalities, as that would end global capitalism – I don’t want to be around for that fight. Peak oil will do that job; sensitive, knowledgeable, caring, other-regarding people won’t, as there’s not enough to create a critical mass to replace a system that depends upon willful or selective or imposed ignorance of full costs and externalities to work. I’m all for paying somewhere closer to full costs and avoiding costs, and I’m not glad these energy-seeking food shortages are making people hungry (as was expected), but I’m glad they are pointing out the fragility of our constructed and continued exploitative existence on this planet.

Hmmm…maybe I’ll write these after I’m fully caffeinated.

]]>