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	<title>Comments on: Bicycles Don&#8217;t Matter.  No Really. They Don&#8217;t.</title>
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	<link>http://hugeasscity.com/2008/08/07/bicycles-dont-matter-no-really-they-dont/</link>
	<description>&#62; so much wonderful packaged in such a mess</description>
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		<title>By: sir bike a lot</title>
		<link>http://hugeasscity.com/2008/08/07/bicycles-dont-matter-no-really-they-dont/comment-page-2/#comment-1348</link>
		<dc:creator>sir bike a lot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Aug 2009 17:26:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://noisetank.com/hugeasscity/2008/08/07/bicycles-dont-matter-no-really-they-dont/#comment-1348</guid>
		<description>What the f*ck. This problem has nothing to do with being a biker or a driver. The problem is with people expecting certain behavior out of other people. Relax all you passive aggressive people. Life&#039;s not worth the time to get angry on a blog over these little issues. Join a task force or another group to go out and educate drivers and bikers alike. Take action not attitude.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What the f*ck. This problem has nothing to do with being a biker or a driver. The problem is with people expecting certain behavior out of other people. Relax all you passive aggressive people. Life&#8217;s not worth the time to get angry on a blog over these little issues. Join a task force or another group to go out and educate drivers and bikers alike. Take action not attitude.</p>
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		<title>By: Kathryn</title>
		<link>http://hugeasscity.com/2008/08/07/bicycles-dont-matter-no-really-they-dont/comment-page-2/#comment-1350</link>
		<dc:creator>Kathryn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Aug 2009 21:16:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://noisetank.com/hugeasscity/2008/08/07/bicycles-dont-matter-no-really-they-dont/#comment-1350</guid>
		<description>Seems like every (numerically insigficant, but everytime) time I go west on Pine and get ready to turn right &#039;on red&#039; just past the Paramount ... signal on, creeping out someone on a bicycle blasts past me on the right, slows a tad to be sure no one is coming through their green, and merrily goes through the red light.  I figure at some point I will hit one of them just because the car will be in forward motion. I&#039;m already emotionally prepared to get over it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Seems like every (numerically insigficant, but everytime) time I go west on Pine and get ready to turn right &#8216;on red&#8217; just past the Paramount &#8230; signal on, creeping out someone on a bicycle blasts past me on the right, slows a tad to be sure no one is coming through their green, and merrily goes through the red light.  I figure at some point I will hit one of them just because the car will be in forward motion. I&#8217;m already emotionally prepared to get over it.</p>
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		<title>By: Ellery</title>
		<link>http://hugeasscity.com/2008/08/07/bicycles-dont-matter-no-really-they-dont/comment-page-2/#comment-1349</link>
		<dc:creator>Ellery</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Aug 2009 18:25:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://noisetank.com/hugeasscity/2008/08/07/bicycles-dont-matter-no-really-they-dont/#comment-1349</guid>
		<description>ugh. please be careful on those streets.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ugh. please be careful on those streets.</p>
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		<title>By: Doug</title>
		<link>http://hugeasscity.com/2008/08/07/bicycles-dont-matter-no-really-they-dont/comment-page-2/#comment-1351</link>
		<dc:creator>Doug</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Aug 2009 16:52:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://noisetank.com/hugeasscity/2008/08/07/bicycles-dont-matter-no-really-they-dont/#comment-1351</guid>
		<description>Dan, I had the EXACT same experience with a Metro driver downtown in the summer of 2008. Spooky. I confronted him at the next light and had pretty much the same conversation (4th and Pine)... I suggested his actions could very likely cause a fatality next time and reported him to Metro... unbelievable...

I just noticed the date of this post, I suppose there&#039;s a very slight chance it was the same driver. let&#039;s hope he/they&#039;re off the streets.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dan, I had the EXACT same experience with a Metro driver downtown in the summer of 2008. Spooky. I confronted him at the next light and had pretty much the same conversation (4th and Pine)&#8230; I suggested his actions could very likely cause a fatality next time and reported him to Metro&#8230; unbelievable&#8230;</p>
<p>I just noticed the date of this post, I suppose there&#8217;s a very slight chance it was the same driver. let&#8217;s hope he/they&#8217;re off the streets.</p>
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		<title>By: Zack</title>
		<link>http://hugeasscity.com/2008/08/07/bicycles-dont-matter-no-really-they-dont/comment-page-2/#comment-1347</link>
		<dc:creator>Zack</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Sep 2008 21:00:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://noisetank.com/hugeasscity/2008/08/07/bicycles-dont-matter-no-really-they-dont/#comment-1347</guid>
		<description>Not having read all the comments this may have very well been touched upon ad nauseum, but between cyclists, motorists and pedestrians there are a lot of people out there with an ever so swollen sense of entitlement.

Here&#039;s a life-enhancing/saving tip:  You&#039;re entitled to nothing.

Drivers:  Watch the fuck out.  You are operating a machine capable of killing just about anybody, keep pthat in mind.

Cyclists:  Watch the fuck out.  Pad yourself up as much as you like you are still vulnerable.  Quit riding around without a care in the world as though everyone will be looking out for you.  Be the better person.

Pedestrians:  That goes triple for you.

The world owes us nothing, let&#039;s all just do our damndest to keep ourselves nice and alive.

Thanks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not having read all the comments this may have very well been touched upon ad nauseum, but between cyclists, motorists and pedestrians there are a lot of people out there with an ever so swollen sense of entitlement.</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s a life-enhancing/saving tip:  You&#8217;re entitled to nothing.</p>
<p>Drivers:  Watch the fuck out.  You are operating a machine capable of killing just about anybody, keep pthat in mind.</p>
<p>Cyclists:  Watch the fuck out.  Pad yourself up as much as you like you are still vulnerable.  Quit riding around without a care in the world as though everyone will be looking out for you.  Be the better person.</p>
<p>Pedestrians:  That goes triple for you.</p>
<p>The world owes us nothing, let&#8217;s all just do our damndest to keep ourselves nice and alive.</p>
<p>Thanks.</p>
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		<title>By: Rottin' in Denmark</title>
		<link>http://hugeasscity.com/2008/08/07/bicycles-dont-matter-no-really-they-dont/comment-page-2/#comment-1346</link>
		<dc:creator>Rottin' in Denmark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Sep 2008 10:53:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://noisetank.com/hugeasscity/2008/08/07/bicycles-dont-matter-no-really-they-dont/#comment-1346</guid>
		<description>[phil] I&#039;m not saying that Seattle is Copenhagen. My only point up there is that bikes and cars don&#039;t antagonize each other when each has its own designated, separated space. There would be a lot less aggrivation (and danger) for everybody if Seattle made the investment in some separated lanes, curbs, road paint, etc.

Look, 35 percent of people bike to work in Copenhagen. In Seattle it&#039;s something like 2 percent. Surely there are a few numbers in between that Seattle can strive for. Just because CPH&#039;s circumstances are different (and they are, in even more ways than you pointed out) doesn&#039;t mean that there&#039;s nothing to learn from it. Both Berlin and Paris are huge, it&#039;s worth pointing out, and both have great bike infrastructure. No, they didn&#039;t do it exactly the same as CPH, nor could they. But they took Denmark&#039;s example and applied it to their own context. Even London, for Christ&#039;s sake, is investing in bike infrastructure to an unprecedented degree, and that city has even bigger challenges than Seattle (tiny streets, insane density, huge size).

I&#039;m from Seattle, by the way, and have been living here in Denmark for three years. It&#039;s frustrating to see how little effort it would take on the city&#039;s part to make a huge difference in emissions, health and quality of life, and how there are always naysayers pointing out why it will never work. Why not *try*, man, geez.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[phil] I&#8217;m not saying that Seattle is Copenhagen. My only point up there is that bikes and cars don&#8217;t antagonize each other when each has its own designated, separated space. There would be a lot less aggrivation (and danger) for everybody if Seattle made the investment in some separated lanes, curbs, road paint, etc.</p>
<p>Look, 35 percent of people bike to work in Copenhagen. In Seattle it&#8217;s something like 2 percent. Surely there are a few numbers in between that Seattle can strive for. Just because CPH&#8217;s circumstances are different (and they are, in even more ways than you pointed out) doesn&#8217;t mean that there&#8217;s nothing to learn from it. Both Berlin and Paris are huge, it&#8217;s worth pointing out, and both have great bike infrastructure. No, they didn&#8217;t do it exactly the same as CPH, nor could they. But they took Denmark&#8217;s example and applied it to their own context. Even London, for Christ&#8217;s sake, is investing in bike infrastructure to an unprecedented degree, and that city has even bigger challenges than Seattle (tiny streets, insane density, huge size).</p>
<p>I&#8217;m from Seattle, by the way, and have been living here in Denmark for three years. It&#8217;s frustrating to see how little effort it would take on the city&#8217;s part to make a huge difference in emissions, health and quality of life, and how there are always naysayers pointing out why it will never work. Why not *try*, man, geez.</p>
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		<title>By: Sabina Pade</title>
		<link>http://hugeasscity.com/2008/08/07/bicycles-dont-matter-no-really-they-dont/comment-page-2/#comment-1345</link>
		<dc:creator>Sabina Pade</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Aug 2008 15:05:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://noisetank.com/hugeasscity/2008/08/07/bicycles-dont-matter-no-really-they-dont/#comment-1345</guid>
		<description>The streetcars of old were small, heavy and slow.  Through most of the 19th century, in Europe as in America, they were horse-drawn.  Definitely not progenitors of sprawl, unless we include fatigued animals collapsed in the street in our definition of it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The streetcars of old were small, heavy and slow.  Through most of the 19th century, in Europe as in America, they were horse-drawn.  Definitely not progenitors of sprawl, unless we include fatigued animals collapsed in the street in our definition of it.</p>
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		<title>By: Matt the Engineer</title>
		<link>http://hugeasscity.com/2008/08/07/bicycles-dont-matter-no-really-they-dont/comment-page-2/#comment-1344</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt the Engineer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Aug 2008 16:42:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://noisetank.com/hugeasscity/2008/08/07/bicycles-dont-matter-no-really-they-dont/#comment-1344</guid>
		<description>[Phil] That&#039;s the second time this week I&#039;ve heard that streetcars created sprawl.  That&#039;s just silly - houses in the old streetcar neighborhoods have 30&#039; lot widths.  That&#039;s density, not sprawl.

You don&#039;t get sprawl until you get a good 5 miles from downtown.  Exactly one thing creates sprawl: cars.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[Phil] That&#8217;s the second time this week I&#8217;ve heard that streetcars created sprawl.  That&#8217;s just silly &#8211; houses in the old streetcar neighborhoods have 30&#8242; lot widths.  That&#8217;s density, not sprawl.</p>
<p>You don&#8217;t get sprawl until you get a good 5 miles from downtown.  Exactly one thing creates sprawl: cars.</p>
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		<title>By: Phil Miller</title>
		<link>http://hugeasscity.com/2008/08/07/bicycles-dont-matter-no-really-they-dont/comment-page-2/#comment-1343</link>
		<dc:creator>Phil Miller</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Aug 2008 16:24:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://noisetank.com/hugeasscity/2008/08/07/bicycles-dont-matter-no-really-they-dont/#comment-1343</guid>
		<description>&quot;It’s amazing that no one in American cities seems to understand that everyone, deep down, wants the same thing.&quot;

It&#039;s amazing to me that anyone thinks for a moment that Americans - much less those in cities - want the same anything....or should be expected to.

Seattle is not Copenhagen - better we recognize that sooner than later.  It is not the fault of bicyclists that our urban form is sprawled (blame old streetcars as well as cars).  Our trips on bikes are longer, the amount of time we can budget to transportation is finite.  If my commute were 2km long instead of 20, I might (MIGHT) be persuaded to travel at the Danish 12kph pace.  Unfortunately, that is neither reasonable or practical.

Both the Danes and the Dutch have a couple of things going in their favor for their cycle track systems - mainly, the cities are small, and they are most certainly FLAT.  Neither situation exists here.

In my perfect world, we start removing motorized traffic from streets and reclaim that with wider, better connected on-street facilities that don&#039;t threaten pedestrians (and this is a huge issue in both Denmark and the Netherlands)and gets me from A to B at a more reasonable clip.  Yes to more density to shorten trips for those who choose that lifestyle, but don&#039;t penalize those who live in rural Fremont (for in beloved Copenhagen, Fremont would be a rural suburb) by making cycling clumsy and inconvenient.

Let&#039;s design for OUR city, not someone else&#039;s.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;It’s amazing that no one in American cities seems to understand that everyone, deep down, wants the same thing.&#8221;</p>
<p>It&#8217;s amazing to me that anyone thinks for a moment that Americans &#8211; much less those in cities &#8211; want the same anything&#8230;.or should be expected to.</p>
<p>Seattle is not Copenhagen &#8211; better we recognize that sooner than later.  It is not the fault of bicyclists that our urban form is sprawled (blame old streetcars as well as cars).  Our trips on bikes are longer, the amount of time we can budget to transportation is finite.  If my commute were 2km long instead of 20, I might (MIGHT) be persuaded to travel at the Danish 12kph pace.  Unfortunately, that is neither reasonable or practical.</p>
<p>Both the Danes and the Dutch have a couple of things going in their favor for their cycle track systems &#8211; mainly, the cities are small, and they are most certainly FLAT.  Neither situation exists here.</p>
<p>In my perfect world, we start removing motorized traffic from streets and reclaim that with wider, better connected on-street facilities that don&#8217;t threaten pedestrians (and this is a huge issue in both Denmark and the Netherlands)and gets me from A to B at a more reasonable clip.  Yes to more density to shorten trips for those who choose that lifestyle, but don&#8217;t penalize those who live in rural Fremont (for in beloved Copenhagen, Fremont would be a rural suburb) by making cycling clumsy and inconvenient.</p>
<p>Let&#8217;s design for OUR city, not someone else&#8217;s.</p>
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		<title>By: Rottin' in Denmark</title>
		<link>http://hugeasscity.com/2008/08/07/bicycles-dont-matter-no-really-they-dont/comment-page-2/#comment-1342</link>
		<dc:creator>Rottin' in Denmark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Aug 2008 07:52:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://noisetank.com/hugeasscity/2008/08/07/bicycles-dont-matter-no-really-they-dont/#comment-1342</guid>
		<description>As a Seattleite transplanted to Copenhagen, I can attest that bikes become *infinitely* less annoying when they have their own lanes and traffic lights and are not forced to share the road with cars.

&#039;Bikes are annoying!&#039; is actually a great argument for building bike lanes and giving bikers more assistance, not less. A biker will never cut you off in traffic or be in front of you at a stop light if he has his own &#039;road&#039; next to yours.

It&#039;s amazing that no one in American cities seems to understand that everyone, deep down, wants the same thing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a Seattleite transplanted to Copenhagen, I can attest that bikes become *infinitely* less annoying when they have their own lanes and traffic lights and are not forced to share the road with cars.</p>
<p>&#8216;Bikes are annoying!&#8217; is actually a great argument for building bike lanes and giving bikers more assistance, not less. A biker will never cut you off in traffic or be in front of you at a stop light if he has his own &#8216;road&#8217; next to yours.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s amazing that no one in American cities seems to understand that everyone, deep down, wants the same thing.</p>
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