Comments on: The Triumph of the Creative Class http://hugeasscity.com/2008/11/11/the-triumph-of-the-creative-class/ > so much wonderful packaged in such a mess Fri, 18 May 2012 04:54:00 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.1 hourly 1 By: Elba Davis http://hugeasscity.com/2008/11/11/the-triumph-of-the-creative-class/comment-page-1/#comment-285441 Elba Davis Thu, 22 Jul 2010 11:24:41 +0000 http://noisetank.com/hugeasscity/2008/11/11/the-triumph-of-the-creative-class/#comment-285441 I usually don’t submit in Blogs but your blog pressured me to, superb work.. stunning … I usually don’t submit in Blogs but your blog pressured me to, superb work.. stunning …

]]> By: japhet http://hugeasscity.com/2008/11/11/the-triumph-of-the-creative-class/comment-page-1/#comment-1995 japhet Thu, 13 Nov 2008 21:04:07 +0000 http://noisetank.com/hugeasscity/2008/11/11/the-triumph-of-the-creative-class/#comment-1995 The main problem with Richard Florida's work is that he uses lousy methods and specious arguments to come to attractive (and perhaps even true) conclusions. However, any two-bit statistician or fundamentalist hack like Kotkin can punch holes in his research large enough to drive a Hummer through. If we base our policy findings on shoddy data collection and analysis by Florida, then we open the door for hacks to undermine those policies by pointing out the obvious failings. There are plenty of solid rationales for smart growth, and we have a few thousand years of history that points to the economic might of cities. They only have about 50 years worth of sprawling development predicated on cheap gas, infinite road construction budgets, and a zero cost for urban infrastructure, and an artificially low value of social capital. I think we can argue against those assumptions without Richard Florida's "Creative Class" stalking horse. The main problem with Richard Florida’s work is that he uses lousy methods and specious arguments to come to attractive (and perhaps even true) conclusions. However, any two-bit statistician or fundamentalist hack like Kotkin can punch holes in his research large enough to drive a Hummer through. If we base our policy findings on shoddy data collection and analysis by Florida, then we open the door for hacks to undermine those policies by pointing out the obvious failings. There are plenty of solid rationales for smart growth, and we have a few thousand years of history that points to the economic might of cities. They only have about 50 years worth of sprawling development predicated on cheap gas, infinite road construction budgets, and a zero cost for urban infrastructure, and an artificially low value of social capital. I think we can argue against those assumptions without Richard Florida’s “Creative Class” stalking horse.

]]> By: Dan Staley http://hugeasscity.com/2008/11/11/the-triumph-of-the-creative-class/comment-page-1/#comment-1994 Dan Staley Thu, 13 Nov 2008 01:28:11 +0000 http://noisetank.com/hugeasscity/2008/11/11/the-triumph-of-the-creative-class/#comment-1994 Joshua, there are certainly reasons for regretting leaving Cascadia. I do miss the chanterelles. And the view from my front porch. Biblius. Slappin' youze upside yo' haid about preferences (after a few frosty beverages, of course) is another. Wha? Preferences may be transient, capricious, wrong, or whatnot. One-third of those surveyed prefer built environments based on Smart Growth principles. This is how we know there is a latent demand. Do we discount these survey preferences for "revealed preferences" of cr*ppy single-use zoning, esp single-family detached products cookie-cuttered across the landscape? There are many ways of knowing. We must be careful in using all of them. ;o) Joshua, there are certainly reasons for regretting leaving Cascadia. I do miss the chanterelles. And the view from my front porch. Biblius. Slappin’ youze upside yo’ haid about preferences (after a few frosty beverages, of course) is another. Wha?

Preferences may be transient, capricious, wrong, or whatnot. One-third of those surveyed prefer built environments based on Smart Growth principles. This is how we know there is a latent demand. Do we discount these survey preferences for “revealed preferences” of cr*ppy single-use zoning, esp single-family detached products cookie-cuttered across the landscape? There are many ways of knowing. We must be careful in using all of them. ;o)

]]> By: Joshua http://hugeasscity.com/2008/11/11/the-triumph-of-the-creative-class/comment-page-1/#comment-1993 Joshua Wed, 12 Nov 2008 23:06:16 +0000 http://noisetank.com/hugeasscity/2008/11/11/the-triumph-of-the-creative-class/#comment-1993 I hate any argument that starts with "The majority of Americans prefer..." It's completely nonsensical. Here, in no order of infuriating importance, are other things that the majority of Americans either have preferred, or currently do prefer: 1. Slavery 2. Socialist witch hunts 3. The Vietnam War 4. George Bush 5. American Idol I'll slightly paraphrase today's final parting shot by Thomas Friedman: Let's hire Steve Jobs to develop an ad campaign for urban density. Then we'd see what American's prefer. I hate any argument that starts with “The majority of Americans prefer…” It’s completely nonsensical. Here, in no order of infuriating importance, are other things that the majority of Americans either have preferred, or currently do prefer:

1. Slavery
2. Socialist witch hunts
3. The Vietnam War
4. George Bush
5. American Idol

I’ll slightly paraphrase today’s final parting shot by Thomas Friedman: Let’s hire Steve Jobs to develop an ad campaign for urban density. Then we’d see what American’s prefer.

]]> By: joshuadf http://hugeasscity.com/2008/11/11/the-triumph-of-the-creative-class/comment-page-1/#comment-1992 joshuadf Wed, 12 Nov 2008 21:16:02 +0000 http://noisetank.com/hugeasscity/2008/11/11/the-triumph-of-the-creative-class/#comment-1992 Wow, I hadn't seen that NYT <a href="http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2008/11/05/us/politics/20081104_ELECTION_RECAP.html" rel="nofollow">Electoral Shifts Recap</a>. That's awesome. I'm somewhat surprised that Obama had such success in the suburbs vs Kerry in 2004, in addition to his urban vote growing by 19%. And I'm still amazed that Houston and Dallas went for Obama, even if he did lose Texas. (Both went for Bush in 2004, of course.) Wow, I hadn’t seen that NYT Electoral Shifts Recap. That’s awesome. I’m somewhat surprised that Obama had such success in the suburbs vs Kerry in 2004, in addition to his urban vote growing by 19%. And I’m still amazed that Houston and Dallas went for Obama, even if he did lose Texas. (Both went for Bush in 2004, of course.)

]]> By: anonymouse http://hugeasscity.com/2008/11/11/the-triumph-of-the-creative-class/comment-page-1/#comment-1991 anonymouse Wed, 12 Nov 2008 17:54:37 +0000 http://noisetank.com/hugeasscity/2008/11/11/the-triumph-of-the-creative-class/#comment-1991 Damn right, it's excessive land use regulation in dense urbanized cities like Las Vegas, Phoenix, Stockton, and Riverside that cause the huge housing bubbles there, while sprawling suburbs like Portland and Seattle managed to avoid the huge changes in house prices. Wait... something doesn't sound quite there... Damn right, it’s excessive land use regulation in dense urbanized cities like Las Vegas, Phoenix, Stockton, and Riverside that cause the huge housing bubbles there, while sprawling suburbs like Portland and Seattle managed to avoid the huge changes in house prices. Wait… something doesn’t sound quite there…

]]> By: Dan Staley http://hugeasscity.com/2008/11/11/the-triumph-of-the-creative-class/comment-page-1/#comment-1990 Dan Staley Wed, 12 Nov 2008 16:39:56 +0000 http://noisetank.com/hugeasscity/2008/11/11/the-triumph-of-the-creative-class/#comment-1990 A better election map, in my view, is the NYT series that showed, at the county level, the change over time in voting. 2008 had Appalachia-Ozarks and S Great Plains as red, everyone else was majority blue. That, my friends, is change we can believe in! A better election map, in my view, is the NYT series that showed, at the county level, the change over time in voting. 2008 had Appalachia-Ozarks and S Great Plains as red, everyone else was majority blue. That, my friends, is change we can believe in!

]]> By: joshuadf http://hugeasscity.com/2008/11/11/the-triumph-of-the-creative-class/comment-page-1/#comment-1989 joshuadf Tue, 11 Nov 2008 21:06:27 +0000 http://noisetank.com/hugeasscity/2008/11/11/the-triumph-of-the-creative-class/#comment-1989 You mean rural conservatives had special access to the Bush White House? I'm shocked. Kotkin makes fun of geographic concentration but conveniently leaves out that 1 in 10 of all Americans live in "just two cities, New York and Los Angeles." Presumably they "prefer" to live in a city, just like this WASP with kids does. (OK, I'm not the typical WASP, but a WASP nonetheless.) And did anyone else notice on county-based election results such as <a href="http://www-personal.umich.edu/~mejn/election/2008/" rel="nofollow">Mark Newman's cartograms</a> that every single large city except Phoenix went for Obama? That includes the ones in Texas and other "red" states (Georgia, Tennessee, Kentucky, etc). In a country that is already overwhelmingly urban, the Republicans really need to get their act together to appeal to urban voters if they want to win an election. You mean rural conservatives had special access to the Bush White House? I’m shocked. Kotkin makes fun of geographic concentration but conveniently leaves out that 1 in 10 of all Americans live in “just two cities, New York and Los Angeles.” Presumably they “prefer” to live in a city, just like this WASP with kids does. (OK, I’m not the typical WASP, but a WASP nonetheless.)

And did anyone else notice on county-based election results such as Mark Newman’s cartograms that every single large city except Phoenix went for Obama? That includes the ones in Texas and other “red” states (Georgia, Tennessee, Kentucky, etc). In a country that is already overwhelmingly urban, the Republicans really need to get their act together to appeal to urban voters if they want to win an election.

]]> By: Dan Staley http://hugeasscity.com/2008/11/11/the-triumph-of-the-creative-class/comment-page-1/#comment-1988 Dan Staley Tue, 11 Nov 2008 19:00:22 +0000 http://noisetank.com/hugeasscity/2008/11/11/the-triumph-of-the-creative-class/#comment-1988 I don't read Kotkin. It frees up time, avoids crowding my brain with irrelevancies, and keeps my blood pressure lower. I don’t read Kotkin. It frees up time, avoids crowding my brain with irrelevancies, and keeps my blood pressure lower.

]]> By: Frank http://hugeasscity.com/2008/11/11/the-triumph-of-the-creative-class/comment-page-1/#comment-1987 Frank Tue, 11 Nov 2008 16:25:16 +0000 http://noisetank.com/hugeasscity/2008/11/11/the-triumph-of-the-creative-class/#comment-1987 It's funny, Kotkin is a kind of relic from an earlier era. He made his bones in the era of Ford Explorers and $1.09/gal gas, and he refuses to adjust to the new reality. It’s funny, Kotkin is a kind of relic from an earlier era. He made his bones in the era of Ford Explorers and $1.09/gal gas, and he refuses to adjust to the new reality.

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