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	<title>Comments on: Bar Chart Porn</title>
	<atom:link href="http://hugeasscity.com/2009/03/17/bar-chart-porn/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://hugeasscity.com/2009/03/17/bar-chart-porn/</link>
	<description>&#62; so much wonderful packaged in such a mess</description>
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		<title>By: Transit-Oriented Communities: A Blueprint for Washington State &#124; hugeasscity</title>
		<link>http://hugeasscity.com/2009/03/17/bar-chart-porn/comment-page-1/#comment-35656</link>
		<dc:creator>Transit-Oriented Communities: A Blueprint for Washington State &#124; hugeasscity</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Oct 2009 07:45:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://noisetank.com/hugeasscity/2009/03/17/bar-chart-porn/#comment-35656</guid>
		<description>[...] is a little sample from the &#8220;Evidence&#8221; section of the Blueprint, that goes with the bar chart porn at the top of the post: A 2000 Canadian study of the Toronto area modeled the effects of [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] is a little sample from the &#8220;Evidence&#8221; section of the Blueprint, that goes with the bar chart porn at the top of the post: A 2000 Canadian study of the Toronto area modeled the effects of [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Two Views of Density and Driving &#124; Climate Vine</title>
		<link>http://hugeasscity.com/2009/03/17/bar-chart-porn/comment-page-1/#comment-18333</link>
		<dc:creator>Two Views of Density and Driving &#124; Climate Vine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Sep 2009 23:35:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://noisetank.com/hugeasscity/2009/03/17/bar-chart-porn/#comment-18333</guid>
		<description>[...] 2) There&#8217;s more to emissions than how much we drive:&#160; Reductions in driving understate the climate benefits of compact neighborhoods.&#160; As this study shows, living in a compact neighborhood doesn&#8217;t just reduce how many miles you drive, it also seems to increase the odds that you&#8217;ll choose a more fuel efficient car.&#160; And compact neighborhoods can also reduce net emissions for heating, cooling, and powering your home. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] 2) There&#8217;s more to emissions than how much we drive:&nbsp; Reductions in driving understate the climate benefits of compact neighborhoods.&nbsp; As this study shows, living in a compact neighborhood doesn&#8217;t just reduce how many miles you drive, it also seems to increase the odds that you&#8217;ll choose a more fuel efficient car.&nbsp; And compact neighborhoods can also reduce net emissions for heating, cooling, and powering your home. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Two Views of Density and Driving&#160;&#124;&#160;test title</title>
		<link>http://hugeasscity.com/2009/03/17/bar-chart-porn/comment-page-1/#comment-18296</link>
		<dc:creator>Two Views of Density and Driving&#160;&#124;&#160;test title</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Sep 2009 22:46:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://noisetank.com/hugeasscity/2009/03/17/bar-chart-porn/#comment-18296</guid>
		<description>[...] 2) There&#8217;s more to emissions than how much we drive:&#160; Reductions in driving understate the climate benefits of compact neighborhoods.&#160; As this study shows, living in a compact neighborhood doesn&#8217;t just reduce how many miles you drive, it also seems to increase the odds that you&#8217;ll choose a more fuel efficient car.&#160; And compact neighborhoods can also reduce net emissions for heating, cooling, and powering your home. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] 2) There&#8217;s more to emissions than how much we drive:&nbsp; Reductions in driving understate the climate benefits of compact neighborhoods.&nbsp; As this study shows, living in a compact neighborhood doesn&#8217;t just reduce how many miles you drive, it also seems to increase the odds that you&#8217;ll choose a more fuel efficient car.&nbsp; And compact neighborhoods can also reduce net emissions for heating, cooling, and powering your home. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: dan bertolet</title>
		<link>http://hugeasscity.com/2009/03/17/bar-chart-porn/comment-page-1/#comment-3005</link>
		<dc:creator>dan bertolet</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Mar 2009 17:07:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://noisetank.com/hugeasscity/2009/03/17/bar-chart-porn/#comment-3005</guid>
		<description>JB@6:  Haven&#039;t you heard?  The eco-fascists are going to force everyone to live in skyscrapers and give up their cars:

http://hugeasscity.com/2009/02/12/the-density-zealots-gung-ho-enviros-and-social-engineers-are-going-to-force-all-of-you-to-live-in-buildings-like-this-forever/

http://hugeasscity.com/2008/04/16/the-eco-fascist-liberals-are-coming-to-take-your-cars-away/

And they can only be stopped by people like you!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>JB@6:  Haven&#8217;t you heard?  The eco-fascists are going to force everyone to live in skyscrapers and give up their cars:</p>
<p><a href="http://hugeasscity.com/2009/02/12/the-density-zealots-gung-ho-enviros-and-social-engineers-are-going-to-force-all-of-you-to-live-in-buildings-like-this-forever/" rel="nofollow">http://hugeasscity.com/2009/02/12/the-density-zealots-gung-ho-enviros-and-social-engineers-are-going-to-force-all-of-you-to-live-in-buildings-like-this-forever/</a></p>
<p><a href="http://hugeasscity.com/2008/04/16/the-eco-fascist-liberals-are-coming-to-take-your-cars-away/" rel="nofollow">http://hugeasscity.com/2008/04/16/the-eco-fascist-liberals-are-coming-to-take-your-cars-away/</a></p>
<p>And they can only be stopped by people like you!</p>
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		<title>By: Kathryn</title>
		<link>http://hugeasscity.com/2009/03/17/bar-chart-porn/comment-page-1/#comment-3004</link>
		<dc:creator>Kathryn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Mar 2009 09:16:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://noisetank.com/hugeasscity/2009/03/17/bar-chart-porn/#comment-3004</guid>
		<description>Comments worth a read:

http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/03/20/520-overpass-and-transportation-subsidies/

And:
http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/03/23/welcome-to-the-fast-lane/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Comments worth a read:</p>
<p><a href="http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/03/20/520-overpass-and-transportation-subsidies/" rel="nofollow">http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/03/20/520-overpass-and-transportation-subsidies/</a></p>
<p>And:<br />
<a href="http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/03/23/welcome-to-the-fast-lane/" rel="nofollow">http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/03/23/welcome-to-the-fast-lane/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Steve</title>
		<link>http://hugeasscity.com/2009/03/17/bar-chart-porn/comment-page-1/#comment-3015</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Mar 2009 19:32:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://noisetank.com/hugeasscity/2009/03/17/bar-chart-porn/#comment-3015</guid>
		<description>Not to jump into an argument that looks to be heading into agreement, but I&#039;d throw out that office park codes are a bigger problem than decentralization of jobs.

Imagine the Microsoft campus as a series of low-rise but walkable buildings in an urban-style streetscape, maybe with some apartments mixed in (i.e. more like Eastlake or Fremont than the ultra-landscaped office park that it is).  It seems to me that the sustainability potential would be much higher -- workers might walk on the street to buy lunch, the urban-style streets might be less hostile to bikes than suburban-style roads are, transit commuters might walk from the transit center down a real street rather than across parking lots and between landscaped bushes, etc.

The landscaping and setbacks give the campus the single-purpose nature that it has, and the single-purpose nature is what makes people drive.  It&#039;s not wrong to think that Seattle is more sustainable -- Seattle generally doesn&#039;t have codes supporting landscaped office parks (that weird campus near Delridge notwithstanding) -- but it&#039;s not a matter of location as much as a matter of code.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not to jump into an argument that looks to be heading into agreement, but I&#8217;d throw out that office park codes are a bigger problem than decentralization of jobs.</p>
<p>Imagine the Microsoft campus as a series of low-rise but walkable buildings in an urban-style streetscape, maybe with some apartments mixed in (i.e. more like Eastlake or Fremont than the ultra-landscaped office park that it is).  It seems to me that the sustainability potential would be much higher &#8212; workers might walk on the street to buy lunch, the urban-style streets might be less hostile to bikes than suburban-style roads are, transit commuters might walk from the transit center down a real street rather than across parking lots and between landscaped bushes, etc.</p>
<p>The landscaping and setbacks give the campus the single-purpose nature that it has, and the single-purpose nature is what makes people drive.  It&#8217;s not wrong to think that Seattle is more sustainable &#8212; Seattle generally doesn&#8217;t have codes supporting landscaped office parks (that weird campus near Delridge notwithstanding) &#8212; but it&#8217;s not a matter of location as much as a matter of code.</p>
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		<title>By: Joshua Daniel Franklin</title>
		<link>http://hugeasscity.com/2009/03/17/bar-chart-porn/comment-page-1/#comment-3000</link>
		<dc:creator>Joshua Daniel Franklin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Mar 2009 03:42:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://noisetank.com/hugeasscity/2009/03/17/bar-chart-porn/#comment-3000</guid>
		<description>I see, we are using the word &quot;density&quot; in different meanings. I think of it as population (housing) per square mile, and it sounds like you mean something like square feet of space (housing/office/etc) per square mile. There is definitely something to be said for decentralization--many on this blog dislike NYC for exactly the reasons you mention. (Paris seems popular, though.)

In your sense I would guess that somewhere like Redmond is actually fairly dense and therefore undesirable--for kicks I put &quot;one microsoft way, redmond, wa&quot; in at walkscore.com: a pathetic 34. I loved living in a small town for the first couple years out of college (walkscore 72!). The problem was the $22k/year my job paid, and this was only about a decade ago. Decentralization of jobs is a tough nut to crack. A job brought my parents to Portland from a small town many many years ago, and that trend continues.

I think we could see some common ground in supporting the &quot;Urban Center&quot; or &quot;Town Square&quot; concepts of moderately dense housing and jobs located near transit (and outside of the central downtown area). This spreads job density throughout a metropolitan area, reducing congestion. At the same time it adds housing options, so middle class workers don&#039;t feel pushed to outer subdivisions, and hopefully allowing more workers the healthier and cleaner options of walking or biking to work.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I see, we are using the word &#8220;density&#8221; in different meanings. I think of it as population (housing) per square mile, and it sounds like you mean something like square feet of space (housing/office/etc) per square mile. There is definitely something to be said for decentralization&#8211;many on this blog dislike NYC for exactly the reasons you mention. (Paris seems popular, though.)</p>
<p>In your sense I would guess that somewhere like Redmond is actually fairly dense and therefore undesirable&#8211;for kicks I put &#8220;one microsoft way, redmond, wa&#8221; in at walkscore.com: a pathetic 34. I loved living in a small town for the first couple years out of college (walkscore 72!). The problem was the $22k/year my job paid, and this was only about a decade ago. Decentralization of jobs is a tough nut to crack. A job brought my parents to Portland from a small town many many years ago, and that trend continues.</p>
<p>I think we could see some common ground in supporting the &#8220;Urban Center&#8221; or &#8220;Town Square&#8221; concepts of moderately dense housing and jobs located near transit (and outside of the central downtown area). This spreads job density throughout a metropolitan area, reducing congestion. At the same time it adds housing options, so middle class workers don&#8217;t feel pushed to outer subdivisions, and hopefully allowing more workers the healthier and cleaner options of walking or biking to work.</p>
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		<title>By: JB</title>
		<link>http://hugeasscity.com/2009/03/17/bar-chart-porn/comment-page-1/#comment-3001</link>
		<dc:creator>JB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Mar 2009 01:01:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://noisetank.com/hugeasscity/2009/03/17/bar-chart-porn/#comment-3001</guid>
		<description>Joshua, I think you&#039;re the one missing the point.  The reason for those long commute times is &lt;b&gt;density&lt;/b&gt;.  Because of the hyperdense concentration of jobs in midtown and lower Manhattan, hundreds of thousands of people must converge on a small geographical area every morning to get to work.  That means road congestion is terrible and large-scale mass transit is a necessity.  And that means long commute times.  In less dense communities, where there is less congestion and more workers can drive to work, commute times are shorter.   And that is one reason to promote the decentralization of housing and jobs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joshua, I think you&#8217;re the one missing the point.  The reason for those long commute times is <b>density</b>.  Because of the hyperdense concentration of jobs in midtown and lower Manhattan, hundreds of thousands of people must converge on a small geographical area every morning to get to work.  That means road congestion is terrible and large-scale mass transit is a necessity.  And that means long commute times.  In less dense communities, where there is less congestion and more workers can drive to work, commute times are shorter.   And that is one reason to promote the decentralization of housing and jobs.</p>
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		<title>By: Joshua Daniel Franklin</title>
		<link>http://hugeasscity.com/2009/03/17/bar-chart-porn/comment-page-1/#comment-3002</link>
		<dc:creator>Joshua Daniel Franklin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Mar 2009 21:40:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://noisetank.com/hugeasscity/2009/03/17/bar-chart-porn/#comment-3002</guid>
		<description>JB, you&#039;re still missing the point. I don&#039;t want &quot;most Americans&quot; to all suddenly move downtown. Of course New York has long commute times--do you know how much it costs to live in Manhattan?!? Those commuters are coming from suburbs.

What we need is more options, but continuing suburban development (via housing tax incentives and highways) is just more of the same. We need to plan for 20, 30, 50 years out and it&#039;s clear that livable cities need to be part of that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>JB, you&#8217;re still missing the point. I don&#8217;t want &#8220;most Americans&#8221; to all suddenly move downtown. Of course New York has long commute times&#8211;do you know how much it costs to live in Manhattan?!? Those commuters are coming from suburbs.</p>
<p>What we need is more options, but continuing suburban development (via housing tax incentives and highways) is just more of the same. We need to plan for 20, 30, 50 years out and it&#8217;s clear that livable cities need to be part of that.</p>
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		<title>By: Deb Eddy</title>
		<link>http://hugeasscity.com/2009/03/17/bar-chart-porn/comment-page-1/#comment-3003</link>
		<dc:creator>Deb Eddy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Mar 2009 05:18:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://noisetank.com/hugeasscity/2009/03/17/bar-chart-porn/#comment-3003</guid>
		<description>This is probably a thread gone dry, but I love these charts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is probably a thread gone dry, but I love these charts.</p>
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