Comments on: This Ain’t Indiana http://hugeasscity.com/2009/06/15/this-aint-indiana/ > so much wonderful packaged in such a mess Sun, 14 Mar 2010 22:59:48 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.1 hourly 1 By: Sue http://hugeasscity.com/2009/06/15/this-aint-indiana/comment-page-1/#comment-3647 Sue Sun, 05 Jul 2009 04:55:10 +0000 http://noisetank.com/hugeasscity/?p=783#comment-3647 I'm sure everyone knows the neighborhood took Simon Properties to the Hearing Examiner years back in an effort to make the Mall more pedestrian friendly. The claim is they have an agreement with store owners that they will not build in front of them on the Malls east side. Pedestrian street codes are pretty clear. Unfortunately only a small part of the Mall is located on pedestrian streets. As far as rezoning, come on folks. By the time Wallace, Loring and Mullay are up to capacity it will be total gridlock. Many of us need to use Northgate Way to access I-5. I have no faith when I daily see folks unwilling to walk that extra half block to a crossing light, and instead drag their children through dangerous traffic. Signs and fences have no effect. Very sad. I’m sure everyone knows the neighborhood took Simon Properties to the Hearing Examiner years back in an effort to make the Mall more pedestrian friendly. The claim is they have an agreement with store owners that they will not build in front of them on the Malls east side. Pedestrian street codes are pretty clear. Unfortunately only a small part of the Mall is located on pedestrian streets.
As far as rezoning, come on folks. By the time Wallace, Loring and Mullay are up to capacity it will be total gridlock. Many of us need to use Northgate Way to access I-5.
I have no faith when I daily see folks unwilling to walk that extra half block to a crossing light, and instead drag their children through dangerous traffic. Signs and fences have no effect. Very sad.

]]> By: LisaB http://hugeasscity.com/2009/06/15/this-aint-indiana/comment-page-1/#comment-3646 LisaB Thu, 18 Jun 2009 18:02:16 +0000 http://noisetank.com/hugeasscity/?p=783#comment-3646 As a possible interesting example of a functioning mall looking to densify, check out Oakridge Mall in Vancouver, BC: http://vancouver.ca/commsvcs/currentplanning/oakridge/index.htm As a possible interesting example of a functioning mall looking to densify, check out Oakridge Mall in Vancouver, BC: http://vancouver.ca/commsvcs/currentplanning/oakridge/index.htm

]]> By: Jon Morgan http://hugeasscity.com/2009/06/15/this-aint-indiana/comment-page-1/#comment-3645 Jon Morgan Wed, 17 Jun 2009 23:49:45 +0000 http://noisetank.com/hugeasscity/?p=783#comment-3645 I'll drink to that! I’ll drink to that!

]]> By: Joshua Daniel Franklin http://hugeasscity.com/2009/06/15/this-aint-indiana/comment-page-1/#comment-3644 Joshua Daniel Franklin Wed, 17 Jun 2009 22:27:08 +0000 http://noisetank.com/hugeasscity/?p=783#comment-3644 You are probably correct, Jon. I don't like the south entrance myself, but then again I don't like the mall. :) You are probably correct, Jon. I don’t like the south entrance myself, but then again I don’t like the mall. :)

]]> By: Jon Morgan http://hugeasscity.com/2009/06/15/this-aint-indiana/comment-page-1/#comment-3643 Jon Morgan Wed, 17 Jun 2009 16:23:45 +0000 http://noisetank.com/hugeasscity/?p=783#comment-3643 A pedestrian-friendly Northgate Way is exactly as realistic and politically feasible as we make it. A pedestrian-friendly Northgate Way is exactly as realistic and politically feasible as we make it.

]]> By: Jon Morgan http://hugeasscity.com/2009/06/15/this-aint-indiana/comment-page-1/#comment-3642 Jon Morgan Wed, 17 Jun 2009 16:21:38 +0000 http://noisetank.com/hugeasscity/?p=783#comment-3642 I hate that walkway. Its access is clearly designed for people leaving their cars in the parking garage, and drivers seem to resent anyone walking across on the ground underneath it. It also is entirely on private property, funded no doubt by the mall to get customers to and from stores. And it's supplemented with an elevator, also privately funded on private property. Would Simons pay for an elevated walkway across the street with elevators on each side? I hate that walkway. Its access is clearly designed for people leaving their cars in the parking garage, and drivers seem to resent anyone walking across on the ground underneath it. It also is entirely on private property, funded no doubt by the mall to get customers to and from stores. And it’s supplemented with an elevator, also privately funded on private property. Would Simons pay for an elevated walkway across the street with elevators on each side?

]]> By: Joshua Daniel Franklin http://hugeasscity.com/2009/06/15/this-aint-indiana/comment-page-1/#comment-3641 Joshua Daniel Franklin Wed, 17 Jun 2009 05:25:20 +0000 http://noisetank.com/hugeasscity/?p=783#comment-3641 Take a look at the last picture of the post--the one of the <i>elevated pedestrian walkway</i> that is the main south entrance to the mall. It's not ideal, but it works. I've used it with a stroller several times. I don't see why a similar ramp couldn't go across Northgate Way from near the totem poll to the second or third level of Northgate North. Take a look at the last picture of the post–the one of the elevated pedestrian walkway that is the main south entrance to the mall. It’s not ideal, but it works. I’ve used it with a stroller several times. I don’t see why a similar ramp couldn’t go across Northgate Way from near the totem poll to the second or third level of Northgate North.

]]> By: RK http://hugeasscity.com/2009/06/15/this-aint-indiana/comment-page-1/#comment-3640 RK Wed, 17 Jun 2009 00:51:34 +0000 http://noisetank.com/hugeasscity/?p=783#comment-3640 Yeah, I agree that elevated walkways are not ideal, and a pedestrian-friendly Northgate Way would be far better, I'm just not sure how realistic that is to happen. Maybe, but with the freeway exits right there and the connections to Aurora and Lake City Way, it seems like it will be politically difficult to lower capacity on it. Of course it is all theoretical until something is done about the north side of the Mall. As long as there is a huge gray-field there, not many people are going to be wanting to cross Northgate Way anyhow. Yeah, I agree that elevated walkways are not ideal, and a pedestrian-friendly Northgate Way would be far better, I’m just not sure how realistic that is to happen. Maybe, but with the freeway exits right there and the connections to Aurora and Lake City Way, it seems like it will be politically difficult to lower capacity on it. Of course it is all theoretical until something is done about the north side of the Mall. As long as there is a huge gray-field there, not many people are going to be wanting to cross Northgate Way anyhow.

]]> By: Jon Morgan http://hugeasscity.com/2009/06/15/this-aint-indiana/comment-page-1/#comment-3639 Jon Morgan Tue, 16 Jun 2009 23:13:35 +0000 http://noisetank.com/hugeasscity/?p=783#comment-3639 I oppose grade-separated pedestrian paths pretty much anywhere there's another option. First of all, how would I cross Northgate Way if I use a wheelchair, crutches, scooter, stroller, or walker? You could put elevators in, but for the cost you could probably do more with the street itself. Broadway, Stone Way, and Nickerson are important arterials too, yet SDOT successfully put road diets on the first two and plans another on the third. Second of all, taking pedestrians off the street reinforces the idea that streets are only for cars, or at least not for pedestrians. In fact, peds need to use the streets as much as possible, and we actually make them safer by slowing car speeds and narrowing roads. Except for crossing water or facilities like I-5 and SR-99, ped bridges tend to be bad ideas. Light rail goes north from Northgate to Lynnwood in 2023; I believe there's a stop planned for Jackson Park. Development at that and other nearby stations may reduce the draw for people to come to Northgate from further away (especially by car), and will certainly make North Seattle less car-centric and attract lots of people to live there without cars. We shouldn't take a step backwards; we should push for a pedestrianized Northgate Way. Sometimes I think planning in this region thinks too small. Peak oil and global warming are here; we need to adjust to them. I oppose grade-separated pedestrian paths pretty much anywhere there’s another option. First of all, how would I cross Northgate Way if I use a wheelchair, crutches, scooter, stroller, or walker? You could put elevators in, but for the cost you could probably do more with the street itself. Broadway, Stone Way, and Nickerson are important arterials too, yet SDOT successfully put road diets on the first two and plans another on the third. Second of all, taking pedestrians off the street reinforces the idea that streets are only for cars, or at least not for pedestrians. In fact, peds need to use the streets as much as possible, and we actually make them safer by slowing car speeds and narrowing roads. Except for crossing water or facilities like I-5 and SR-99, ped bridges tend to be bad ideas.

Light rail goes north from Northgate to Lynnwood in 2023; I believe there’s a stop planned for Jackson Park. Development at that and other nearby stations may reduce the draw for people to come to Northgate from further away (especially by car), and will certainly make North Seattle less car-centric and attract lots of people to live there without cars.

We shouldn’t take a step backwards; we should push for a pedestrianized Northgate Way. Sometimes I think planning in this region thinks too small. Peak oil and global warming are here; we need to adjust to them.

]]> By: RK http://hugeasscity.com/2009/06/15/this-aint-indiana/comment-page-1/#comment-3638 RK Tue, 16 Jun 2009 20:14:07 +0000 http://noisetank.com/hugeasscity/?p=783#comment-3638 I think the retailers are not going to go for any eliminating of parking. However, moving as much of the surface parking into a new parking structure or two would greatly free up space for new development. I agree with the above comment about removing the roof and introducing mixed-use. I know Northgate takes pride in having the (infamous) claim on being the first covered shopping mall, but I don't think that fact should leave it stuck in a fading era. It's not like there is anything of architectural or historical value to save. I also agree that a elevated walkway over Northgate Way to the shops on the north side would be a big improvement. It is frustrating how hard it is to get from the Mall to the other surrounding retail by foot. I think 99% of people drive this short distance. Of course, right now there is nothing on the south side to connect the walkway to, just a sea of surface parking. So building something in that space would be necessary too. I think the retailers are not going to go for any eliminating of parking. However, moving as much of the surface parking into a new parking structure or two would greatly free up space for new development. I agree with the above comment about removing the roof and introducing mixed-use. I know Northgate takes pride in having the (infamous) claim on being the first covered shopping mall, but I don’t think that fact should leave it stuck in a fading era. It’s not like there is anything of architectural or historical value to save.

I also agree that a elevated walkway over Northgate Way to the shops on the north side would be a big improvement. It is frustrating how hard it is to get from the Mall to the other surrounding retail by foot. I think 99% of people drive this short distance. Of course, right now there is nothing on the south side to connect the walkway to, just a sea of surface parking. So building something in that space would be necessary too.

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