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	<title>Comments on: Gawd Awful!</title>
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	<link>http://hugeasscity.com/2009/07/14/gawd-aweful/</link>
	<description>&#62; so much wonderful packaged in such a mess</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 30 Jan 2012 16:37:25 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Bethann Guynup</title>
		<link>http://hugeasscity.com/2009/07/14/gawd-aweful/comment-page-1/#comment-501095</link>
		<dc:creator>Bethann Guynup</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Mar 2011 09:01:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://noisetank.com/hugeasscity/?p=1120#comment-501095</guid>
		<description>Absolutely Great! The contexts were very informational and educational. I&#039;ve learned a lot of ideas through this stuff. Thank you!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Absolutely Great! The contexts were very informational and educational. I&#8217;ve learned a lot of ideas through this stuff. Thank you!</p>
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		<title>By: Nisha Baio</title>
		<link>http://hugeasscity.com/2009/07/14/gawd-aweful/comment-page-1/#comment-464184</link>
		<dc:creator>Nisha Baio</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Jan 2011 09:50:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://noisetank.com/hugeasscity/?p=1120#comment-464184</guid>
		<description>Nice post. Last Month I found this web site and wanted to let you know that I have been gratified, going through your site’s pages. I shall be signing up to your RSS feed and shall wait for your next post. Cheers, Carol</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice post. Last Month I found this web site and wanted to let you know that I have been gratified, going through your site’s pages. I shall be signing up to your RSS feed and shall wait for your next post. Cheers, Carol</p>
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		<title>By: Lesli Hoese</title>
		<link>http://hugeasscity.com/2009/07/14/gawd-aweful/comment-page-1/#comment-371266</link>
		<dc:creator>Lesli Hoese</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Oct 2010 18:55:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://noisetank.com/hugeasscity/?p=1120#comment-371266</guid>
		<description>I found your entry interesting do Ive added a Trackback to it on my weblog</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I found your entry interesting do Ive added a Trackback to it on my weblog</p>
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		<title>By: Don Y. Ayers</title>
		<link>http://hugeasscity.com/2009/07/14/gawd-aweful/comment-page-1/#comment-338250</link>
		<dc:creator>Don Y. Ayers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Sep 2010 13:21:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://noisetank.com/hugeasscity/?p=1120#comment-338250</guid>
		<description>I try hard  to get rid of my garbage sensibly however it is usually hard to stay motivated when I observe just what many other countries are doing to this world!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I try hard  to get rid of my garbage sensibly however it is usually hard to stay motivated when I observe just what many other countries are doing to this world!</p>
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		<title>By: Herman Shollenbarger</title>
		<link>http://hugeasscity.com/2009/07/14/gawd-aweful/comment-page-1/#comment-299349</link>
		<dc:creator>Herman Shollenbarger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Aug 2010 11:36:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://noisetank.com/hugeasscity/?p=1120#comment-299349</guid>
		<description>success.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>success.</p>
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		<title>By: Chokuzuki</title>
		<link>http://hugeasscity.com/2009/07/14/gawd-aweful/comment-page-1/#comment-120825</link>
		<dc:creator>Chokuzuki</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Feb 2010 23:51:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://noisetank.com/hugeasscity/?p=1120#comment-120825</guid>
		<description>I grew up in the Greenwood neighborhood.  And I must say, I bad mouthed all the townhouses that poped-up throughout North Seattle, particularly in the past 10 years.  Often was the case that a landmark I so was used to seeing had been demolished to make way for a townhouse.

I traveled a thousand times in front of the tonwnhouses seen above. Never caring to see them.  However, when I decided to buy a home, I happened to look at the building itself from the inside.  I was surprised at the quality and nice interior.  I did not buy this townhouse but I realize that from the outside they may not be as asthetic as some would care, particularly in front of a bus stop.  The unites were very high-tech and exceeded City codes.  High-efficient windows that concerve energy as well as keeping the noise out.  

Anybody that buys any of these units will hit a huge ROI in the future.  Looking at the Car Wash immeditelly accross the street... a gonner by when the economy picks up... will find a great environment.  And good riddins for those who hate townhomes... they are that much less out there competing for these excellent buys.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I grew up in the Greenwood neighborhood.  And I must say, I bad mouthed all the townhouses that poped-up throughout North Seattle, particularly in the past 10 years.  Often was the case that a landmark I so was used to seeing had been demolished to make way for a townhouse.</p>
<p>I traveled a thousand times in front of the tonwnhouses seen above. Never caring to see them.  However, when I decided to buy a home, I happened to look at the building itself from the inside.  I was surprised at the quality and nice interior.  I did not buy this townhouse but I realize that from the outside they may not be as asthetic as some would care, particularly in front of a bus stop.  The unites were very high-tech and exceeded City codes.  High-efficient windows that concerve energy as well as keeping the noise out.  </p>
<p>Anybody that buys any of these units will hit a huge ROI in the future.  Looking at the Car Wash immeditelly accross the street&#8230; a gonner by when the economy picks up&#8230; will find a great environment.  And good riddins for those who hate townhomes&#8230; they are that much less out there competing for these excellent buys.</p>
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		<title>By: bruce c. ewing</title>
		<link>http://hugeasscity.com/2009/07/14/gawd-aweful/comment-page-1/#comment-41195</link>
		<dc:creator>bruce c. ewing</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 Oct 2009 01:52:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://noisetank.com/hugeasscity/?p=1120#comment-41195</guid>
		<description>Good Morning just thought i would let you know that i also had a problem with your blog coming up frozen also. Might be gremlins in the system.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good Morning just thought i would let you know that i also had a problem with your blog coming up frozen also. Might be gremlins in the system.</p>
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		<title>By: dang</title>
		<link>http://hugeasscity.com/2009/07/14/gawd-aweful/comment-page-1/#comment-3900</link>
		<dc:creator>dang</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Jul 2009 15:10:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://noisetank.com/hugeasscity/?p=1120#comment-3900</guid>
		<description>Kathryn - I couldn&#039;t agree more with your throwing down the gauntlet, but that said I also could not disagree with you more in your first couple of sentences... and that makes me question what is deemed an acceptable increase in density? I think there are real misunderstandings regarding density, both from a conservation of lifestyle to congestion and crowding to preservation of views and trees, et al. Projects like the one highlighted in this post do not do density advocates any favors and simply saying, &quot;Yea, but in a couple of years when the trees grow in...&quot; is not going to make this project better, nor will it sway density opponents, nor will it convince density proponents who can&#039;t bring themselves to supporting a project in their own neighborhood. And here&#039;s why... increasing density is not simply about housing more people, more efficiently. It&#039;s also about reconsidering all the spaces associated with our housing, our work, our lives... it all needs to be reconsidered and done in a thoughtful meaningfully efficient manner. So the issue that I have with the project highlighted in this post is precisely its attitude toward density; it houses people (somewhat) densely and nothing more.

That I find it ugly is a matter of personal preference, but what is really unforgivable to me is that the project ignores its relationship to the street (or actually it acknowledges it through the use of a wall?), the surrounding neighborhood, the bus stop (and opps for its residents to get to it with some ease) and even the experience to be had by the future residents (no wonder it is still empty?). If it did these things well, it could be a stuccoed, shingle-style, English Tudor-ized craftsman and I would be happier. I may not want to live there, but again, personal preferences.

For me, the issue at the moment is less about aesthetics, because we aren&#039;t getting the most fundamental of issues right. What we are building now is going to be with us for the next 50+ years. What we build now is also going to influence how we build for years, not aesthetically, but as a development model of what is an acceptable project, an acceptable relationship to the street, an acceptable treatment of the interface with the public realm, an acceptable amount of natural light and ventilation, etc, etc

Back to the gauntlet. I believe by being within the boundaries of an UV, the SFDs are next in line to be up-zoned. As you point out, they aren&#039;t currently, and I am speculating here, but I would think that this has something to do with focusing development and managing growth. Not that I am convinced that this is something the City has succeeded in doing, but up-zoning an entire neighborhood would disperse growth throughout the UV boundaries. Our zoning and growth should be viewed as incremental, and we are just taking our first steps.

Currently, a lot of the potential for growth occurs along hyper dense, mixed-use corridors. This has succeeded in generating a lot of mixed use structures over the last 10 years, but there hasn&#039;t been nearly enough residential density in very close, walkable proximity, and I believe this is what you are getting at? Typically the mixed-use corridors are surrounded by low-rise zoning, which in theory allows for relatively dense and modestly scaled development, but this hasn&#039;t happened to the extent that a lot of density proponents would like.

Just broadening the areas in low-rise zones won&#039;t do the trick. I think the lack of development in this intermediate zone has to do with a couple of key factors: its much messier from a design and community review standpoint (unless you go the 6-pack route); and at an intermediate scale, it is not nearly as easy or profitable to build. This is something that I think about a lot, typically as I walk into work passing by oodles of early 20th-century low-rise apartment buildings that would not be buildable under the current zoning code.

Why? These are fabulous urban building blocks after all. But developed under today&#039;s standards and with typical financing, their size/scale would require going through the design review process, adding time, additional fees and the element of the unknown. Parking requirements are also a huge deterrent, adding a lot of cost, time and complexity. Building setbacks play a big role too, requiring a building to stay further back from lot lines the higher it goes. And modulation requirements to a lesser extent, which would actually prevent you from building more than 5 rowhouses in a row (100&#039;). There&#039;s also open space requirements, which promote private open space within each development over public open space (i.e. parks). And of course clearances   from overhead power lines. All these elements either add costs or diminish buildable areas, thereby dispersing costs across a lower yield. So addressing these issues are key unless, we are willing to settle for more six-packs in low-rise zones.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kathryn &#8211; I couldn&#8217;t agree more with your throwing down the gauntlet, but that said I also could not disagree with you more in your first couple of sentences&#8230; and that makes me question what is deemed an acceptable increase in density? I think there are real misunderstandings regarding density, both from a conservation of lifestyle to congestion and crowding to preservation of views and trees, et al. Projects like the one highlighted in this post do not do density advocates any favors and simply saying, &#8220;Yea, but in a couple of years when the trees grow in&#8230;&#8221; is not going to make this project better, nor will it sway density opponents, nor will it convince density proponents who can&#8217;t bring themselves to supporting a project in their own neighborhood. And here&#8217;s why&#8230; increasing density is not simply about housing more people, more efficiently. It&#8217;s also about reconsidering all the spaces associated with our housing, our work, our lives&#8230; it all needs to be reconsidered and done in a thoughtful meaningfully efficient manner. So the issue that I have with the project highlighted in this post is precisely its attitude toward density; it houses people (somewhat) densely and nothing more.</p>
<p>That I find it ugly is a matter of personal preference, but what is really unforgivable to me is that the project ignores its relationship to the street (or actually it acknowledges it through the use of a wall?), the surrounding neighborhood, the bus stop (and opps for its residents to get to it with some ease) and even the experience to be had by the future residents (no wonder it is still empty?). If it did these things well, it could be a stuccoed, shingle-style, English Tudor-ized craftsman and I would be happier. I may not want to live there, but again, personal preferences.</p>
<p>For me, the issue at the moment is less about aesthetics, because we aren&#8217;t getting the most fundamental of issues right. What we are building now is going to be with us for the next 50+ years. What we build now is also going to influence how we build for years, not aesthetically, but as a development model of what is an acceptable project, an acceptable relationship to the street, an acceptable treatment of the interface with the public realm, an acceptable amount of natural light and ventilation, etc, etc</p>
<p>Back to the gauntlet. I believe by being within the boundaries of an UV, the SFDs are next in line to be up-zoned. As you point out, they aren&#8217;t currently, and I am speculating here, but I would think that this has something to do with focusing development and managing growth. Not that I am convinced that this is something the City has succeeded in doing, but up-zoning an entire neighborhood would disperse growth throughout the UV boundaries. Our zoning and growth should be viewed as incremental, and we are just taking our first steps.</p>
<p>Currently, a lot of the potential for growth occurs along hyper dense, mixed-use corridors. This has succeeded in generating a lot of mixed use structures over the last 10 years, but there hasn&#8217;t been nearly enough residential density in very close, walkable proximity, and I believe this is what you are getting at? Typically the mixed-use corridors are surrounded by low-rise zoning, which in theory allows for relatively dense and modestly scaled development, but this hasn&#8217;t happened to the extent that a lot of density proponents would like.</p>
<p>Just broadening the areas in low-rise zones won&#8217;t do the trick. I think the lack of development in this intermediate zone has to do with a couple of key factors: its much messier from a design and community review standpoint (unless you go the 6-pack route); and at an intermediate scale, it is not nearly as easy or profitable to build. This is something that I think about a lot, typically as I walk into work passing by oodles of early 20th-century low-rise apartment buildings that would not be buildable under the current zoning code.</p>
<p>Why? These are fabulous urban building blocks after all. But developed under today&#8217;s standards and with typical financing, their size/scale would require going through the design review process, adding time, additional fees and the element of the unknown. Parking requirements are also a huge deterrent, adding a lot of cost, time and complexity. Building setbacks play a big role too, requiring a building to stay further back from lot lines the higher it goes. And modulation requirements to a lesser extent, which would actually prevent you from building more than 5 rowhouses in a row (100&#8242;). There&#8217;s also open space requirements, which promote private open space within each development over public open space (i.e. parks). And of course clearances   from overhead power lines. All these elements either add costs or diminish buildable areas, thereby dispersing costs across a lower yield. So addressing these issues are key unless, we are willing to settle for more six-packs in low-rise zones.</p>
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		<title>By: Kathryn</title>
		<link>http://hugeasscity.com/2009/07/14/gawd-aweful/comment-page-1/#comment-3901</link>
		<dc:creator>Kathryn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Jul 2009 03:58:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://noisetank.com/hugeasscity/?p=1120#comment-3901</guid>
		<description>I actually prefer row houses to the tandem junk.  Building quality and landscaping is yet another issue.  Those will look fine in a few years after some trees grow up in the parking strip.

Here is a thought about how people can be useful.  Take a look at the proposed multifamily code.  Those of you who are pro-deveopment and who live in a Single Family neighborhood, especially if you are in an Urban Village, do us all a favor and tell us how you will do the right thing and get your area upzoned.  And which of the choices provided will you go for?

This is kind of a trick question and a throwing down of the gauntlet.  The trick question is that there should be no Single Family inside an Urban Village.  The fact that is, means either the work needs to be done by none other than you as proponents or the Urban Village boundaries need to be redrawn.

The gauntlet is to really look at the code and figure out where the zoning is to allow us to dense up?  Is LDT really Duplex-Triplex in the terms that largely non Urban Village SF areas can handle?  Can you take the L3-L4 specs and make them happen in the SF zones inside the Urban Village?  What would you change?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I actually prefer row houses to the tandem junk.  Building quality and landscaping is yet another issue.  Those will look fine in a few years after some trees grow up in the parking strip.</p>
<p>Here is a thought about how people can be useful.  Take a look at the proposed multifamily code.  Those of you who are pro-deveopment and who live in a Single Family neighborhood, especially if you are in an Urban Village, do us all a favor and tell us how you will do the right thing and get your area upzoned.  And which of the choices provided will you go for?</p>
<p>This is kind of a trick question and a throwing down of the gauntlet.  The trick question is that there should be no Single Family inside an Urban Village.  The fact that is, means either the work needs to be done by none other than you as proponents or the Urban Village boundaries need to be redrawn.</p>
<p>The gauntlet is to really look at the code and figure out where the zoning is to allow us to dense up?  Is LDT really Duplex-Triplex in the terms that largely non Urban Village SF areas can handle?  Can you take the L3-L4 specs and make them happen in the SF zones inside the Urban Village?  What would you change?</p>
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		<title>By: Paul Kuger</title>
		<link>http://hugeasscity.com/2009/07/14/gawd-aweful/comment-page-1/#comment-3916</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Kuger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Jul 2009 01:05:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://noisetank.com/hugeasscity/?p=1120#comment-3916</guid>
		<description>Look, Ducks. Shoot!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Look, Ducks. Shoot!</p>
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