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	<title>Comments on: The Office of Sustainable Urbanism</title>
	<atom:link href="http://hugeasscity.com/2009/09/04/the-office-of-sustainable-urbanism/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://hugeasscity.com/2009/09/04/the-office-of-sustainable-urbanism/</link>
	<description>&#62; so much wonderful packaged in such a mess</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 11 Mar 2010 07:37:43 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Jojo</title>
		<link>http://hugeasscity.com/2009/09/04/the-office-of-sustainable-urbanism/comment-page-1/#comment-130698</link>
		<dc:creator>Jojo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Feb 2010 20:13:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://noisetank.com/hugeasscity/?p=1814#comment-130698</guid>
		<description>Yea, Put people in charge that don&#039;t actually know anything about design, safety, asset management. Unlicensed freakoids running the city. Great idea dude.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yea, Put people in charge that don&#8217;t actually know anything about design, safety, asset management. Unlicensed freakoids running the city. Great idea dude.</p>
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		<title>By: Hugeasscity Has Sold Out To THE MAN &#124; hugeasscity</title>
		<link>http://hugeasscity.com/2009/09/04/the-office-of-sustainable-urbanism/comment-page-1/#comment-104355</link>
		<dc:creator>Hugeasscity Has Sold Out To THE MAN &#124; hugeasscity</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Jan 2010 07:46:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://noisetank.com/hugeasscity/?p=1814#comment-104355</guid>
		<description>[...] apparently enough of you find sustainable urbanism (whatever that means) to be sufficiently scintillating that the overlords of PubliCola were [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] apparently enough of you find sustainable urbanism (whatever that means) to be sufficiently scintillating that the overlords of PubliCola were [...]</p>
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		<title>By: File Under Portland Envy &#124; hugeasscity</title>
		<link>http://hugeasscity.com/2009/09/04/the-office-of-sustainable-urbanism/comment-page-1/#comment-94300</link>
		<dc:creator>File Under Portland Envy &#124; hugeasscity</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Jan 2010 19:05:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://noisetank.com/hugeasscity/?p=1814#comment-94300</guid>
		<description>[...] our electeds are uncomfortable even uttering those words. And that last item in the list sure has a familiar ring to [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] our electeds are uncomfortable even uttering those words. And that last item in the list sure has a familiar ring to [...]</p>
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		<title>By: City Comforts</title>
		<link>http://hugeasscity.com/2009/09/04/the-office-of-sustainable-urbanism/comment-page-1/#comment-9737</link>
		<dc:creator>City Comforts</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Sep 2009 01:57:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://noisetank.com/hugeasscity/?p=1814#comment-9737</guid>
		<description>Dan, your link above concerning green roofs in Germany
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_roof
links to Penn State
http://horticulture.psu.edu/node/386
But there is no information on that page which verifies the 10% figure.

Btw, the issueis not whether green roofs are a nice idea or have benefits — I am in full agreement they are attractive and probably have many excellent qualities.

The issue as I see it is but whether green roofs are the most cost-effective way to achieve the goals which they are supposed to fulfill:
storm water quality and detention, 
energy use/building insulation, 
&#039;urban heat island&#039; effect,
natural habitat,
general urban livability.

Any others?

I suspect -- and we need the studies to say one way or another -- that techniques other than green roofs will be more cost-effective.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dan, your link above concerning green roofs in Germany<br />
<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_roof" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_roof</a><br />
links to Penn State<br />
<a href="http://horticulture.psu.edu/node/386" rel="nofollow">http://horticulture.psu.edu/node/386</a><br />
But there is no information on that page which verifies the 10% figure.</p>
<p>Btw, the issueis not whether green roofs are a nice idea or have benefits — I am in full agreement they are attractive and probably have many excellent qualities.</p>
<p>The issue as I see it is but whether green roofs are the most cost-effective way to achieve the goals which they are supposed to fulfill:<br />
storm water quality and detention,<br />
energy use/building insulation,<br />
&#8216;urban heat island&#8217; effect,<br />
natural habitat,<br />
general urban livability.</p>
<p>Any others?</p>
<p>I suspect &#8212; and we need the studies to say one way or another &#8212; that techniques other than green roofs will be more cost-effective.</p>
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		<title>By: City Comforts</title>
		<link>http://hugeasscity.com/2009/09/04/the-office-of-sustainable-urbanism/comment-page-1/#comment-9718</link>
		<dc:creator>City Comforts</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Sep 2009 01:02:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://noisetank.com/hugeasscity/?p=1814#comment-9718</guid>
		<description>Dan, I never said that green roofs don&#039;t work. I said (on my own blog) that green roofs are &quot;experimental&quot; and here I wrote that &quot;no one knows yet.&quot; I have been very clear; I am not against green roofs. I am simply asserting that you cannot say accurately that &quot;we all know what [sustainable] means.&quot; We don&#039;t.

But my surmise (and it is only my own guess right now) is that the benefits of green roofs can be achieved as or more effectively and at lower cost by more prosaic methods. If you are willing to give it a fair hearing I will elaborate.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dan, I never said that green roofs don&#8217;t work. I said (on my own blog) that green roofs are &#8220;experimental&#8221; and here I wrote that &#8220;no one knows yet.&#8221; I have been very clear; I am not against green roofs. I am simply asserting that you cannot say accurately that &#8220;we all know what [sustainable] means.&#8221; We don&#8217;t.</p>
<p>But my surmise (and it is only my own guess right now) is that the benefits of green roofs can be achieved as or more effectively and at lower cost by more prosaic methods. If you are willing to give it a fair hearing I will elaborate.</p>
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		<title>By: dan bertolet</title>
		<link>http://hugeasscity.com/2009/09/04/the-office-of-sustainable-urbanism/comment-page-1/#comment-9322</link>
		<dc:creator>dan bertolet</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Sep 2009 00:09:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://noisetank.com/hugeasscity/?p=1814#comment-9322</guid>
		<description>&quot;Today, it is estimated that about 10% of all German roofs have been greened.&quot;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_roof

I have not researched this thoroughly and don&#039;t have a paper to cite for you, but maybe someone else could chime in.  My educated guess is that if you factor in all the benefits, including all the externalized costs, that it would make sense for us to be doing a lot more green roofs than we are doing now. 

And likewise, do you have any studies you could share that say green roofs are not worth doing?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Today, it is estimated that about 10% of all German roofs have been greened.&#8221;</p>
<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_roof" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_roof</a></p>
<p>I have not researched this thoroughly and don&#8217;t have a paper to cite for you, but maybe someone else could chime in.  My educated guess is that if you factor in all the benefits, including all the externalized costs, that it would make sense for us to be doing a lot more green roofs than we are doing now. </p>
<p>And likewise, do you have any studies you could share that say green roofs are not worth doing?</p>
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		<title>By: City Comforts</title>
		<link>http://hugeasscity.com/2009/09/04/the-office-of-sustainable-urbanism/comment-page-1/#comment-9264</link>
		<dc:creator>City Comforts</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Sep 2009 19:44:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://noisetank.com/hugeasscity/?p=1814#comment-9264</guid>
		<description>Dan.
Where did you get the figure of 10%? I was recently in Germany and I don&#039;t remember seeing any green roofs much less 10%.
At any rate, can you cite any fair-handed empirical studies which show that green roods have a positive cost/benefit? I would be curious to read one.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dan.<br />
Where did you get the figure of 10%? I was recently in Germany and I don&#8217;t remember seeing any green roofs much less 10%.<br />
At any rate, can you cite any fair-handed empirical studies which show that green roods have a positive cost/benefit? I would be curious to read one.</p>
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		<title>By: Will a new mayor think boldly about planning? &#124; Seattle News</title>
		<link>http://hugeasscity.com/2009/09/04/the-office-of-sustainable-urbanism/comment-page-1/#comment-8214</link>
		<dc:creator>Will a new mayor think boldly about planning? &#124; Seattle News</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Sep 2009 16:20:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://noisetank.com/hugeasscity/?p=1814#comment-8214</guid>
		<description>[...] and absorb DPD&#8217;s &#8220;Green Team&#8221;? (Pardon the alphabetocracy!) This idea has been proposed by blogger Dan Bertolet of hugeasscity.com, suggesting a new &#8220;Office of Sustainable [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] and absorb DPD&#8217;s &#8220;Green Team&#8221;? (Pardon the alphabetocracy!) This idea has been proposed by blogger Dan Bertolet of hugeasscity.com, suggesting a new &#8220;Office of Sustainable [...]</p>
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		<title>By: dan bertolet</title>
		<link>http://hugeasscity.com/2009/09/04/the-office-of-sustainable-urbanism/comment-page-1/#comment-7883</link>
		<dc:creator>dan bertolet</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Sep 2009 16:27:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://noisetank.com/hugeasscity/?p=1814#comment-7883</guid>
		<description>Thanks to all of you for obliging my whimsical eco-nazi nanny-state thought experiment.  I&#039;m surprised no one accused me of having a behind the scenes deal with McGinn to run the OSU.  Please keep in mind that this is just a personal blog and there is no filter on what I publish.

@12, you should probably get on the phone to Germany right away and let them know that we don&#039;t know if green roofs make sense, since they&#039;ve already put them on 10 percent of their buildings.  Do you really believe that lack of knowing what to do is holding us back, as opposed to not implementing effective policy?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks to all of you for obliging my whimsical eco-nazi nanny-state thought experiment.  I&#8217;m surprised no one accused me of having a behind the scenes deal with McGinn to run the OSU.  Please keep in mind that this is just a personal blog and there is no filter on what I publish.</p>
<p>@12, you should probably get on the phone to Germany right away and let them know that we don&#8217;t know if green roofs make sense, since they&#8217;ve already put them on 10 percent of their buildings.  Do you really believe that lack of knowing what to do is holding us back, as opposed to not implementing effective policy?</p>
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		<title>By: Alex</title>
		<link>http://hugeasscity.com/2009/09/04/the-office-of-sustainable-urbanism/comment-page-1/#comment-7873</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Sep 2009 15:39:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://noisetank.com/hugeasscity/?p=1814#comment-7873</guid>
		<description>Yes, the city needs a coordinated planning department with implementation power.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, the city needs a coordinated planning department with implementation power.</p>
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