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	<title>Comments on: Thank You Sir, May I Have Another</title>
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	<link>http://hugeasscity.com/2009/10/05/thank-you-sir-may-i-have-another/</link>
	<description>&#62; so much wonderful packaged in such a mess</description>
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		<title>By: nova</title>
		<link>http://hugeasscity.com/2009/10/05/thank-you-sir-may-i-have-another/comment-page-1/#comment-427331</link>
		<dc:creator>nova</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Dec 2010 20:28:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hugeasscity.com/?p=2109#comment-427331</guid>
		<description>I was Surfing for something completely different, but got your page Thank You Sir, May I Have Another &#124; hugeasscity and found it Interesting.Nice Post on matt light...Thanks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was Surfing for something completely different, but got your page Thank You Sir, May I Have Another | hugeasscity and found it Interesting.Nice Post on matt light&#8230;Thanks.</p>
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		<title>By: Time Passages (They Grow Up So Fast) &#124; hugeasscity</title>
		<link>http://hugeasscity.com/2009/10/05/thank-you-sir-may-i-have-another/comment-page-1/#comment-88398</link>
		<dc:creator>Time Passages (They Grow Up So Fast) &#124; hugeasscity</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Jan 2010 23:31:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hugeasscity.com/?p=2109#comment-88398</guid>
		<description>[...] 11.3.09: 7th and Madison [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] 11.3.09: 7th and Madison [...]</p>
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		<title>By: dave</title>
		<link>http://hugeasscity.com/2009/10/05/thank-you-sir-may-i-have-another/comment-page-1/#comment-26895</link>
		<dc:creator>dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Oct 2009 19:09:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hugeasscity.com/?p=2109#comment-26895</guid>
		<description>Addressing the Wells/Matt debate and building on JDF&#039;s article post---If you want to see successful edge city conditions, arlington VA, crystal city, Bethesda, MD are shing examples.  These once &quot;suburbs&quot; are now cities with density that rivals the most &quot;urban conditions&quot; found on the west coast.  They are examples of what Wells is advocating, diverse local economies outside the urban core.  But are they &quot;sustainable&quot; communities?  Having grown up and lived there for 20 years it&#039;s hard to consider Arlington/Ballston, Bethesda, etc. as &quot;sustainable&quot;.  People still drive everywhere, the fat highways are jam packed at the same time Metro is jam packed at rush hour,  suburban spawl is consisent for a 20 mile radius and continues to consume farm land and countryside at alarming rates.  Without the densification of these &quot;close in&quot; suburbs I can only think it would be worse.  However looking at it on paper when considering density, access to mass transit, mixed-use development, walkability, etc. these areas are light years ahead of anything in Seattle.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Addressing the Wells/Matt debate and building on JDF&#8217;s article post&#8212;If you want to see successful edge city conditions, arlington VA, crystal city, Bethesda, MD are shing examples.  These once &#8220;suburbs&#8221; are now cities with density that rivals the most &#8220;urban conditions&#8221; found on the west coast.  They are examples of what Wells is advocating, diverse local economies outside the urban core.  But are they &#8220;sustainable&#8221; communities?  Having grown up and lived there for 20 years it&#8217;s hard to consider Arlington/Ballston, Bethesda, etc. as &#8220;sustainable&#8221;.  People still drive everywhere, the fat highways are jam packed at the same time Metro is jam packed at rush hour,  suburban spawl is consisent for a 20 mile radius and continues to consume farm land and countryside at alarming rates.  Without the densification of these &#8220;close in&#8221; suburbs I can only think it would be worse.  However looking at it on paper when considering density, access to mass transit, mixed-use development, walkability, etc. these areas are light years ahead of anything in Seattle.</p>
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		<title>By: Joshua Daniel Franklin</title>
		<link>http://hugeasscity.com/2009/10/05/thank-you-sir-may-i-have-another/comment-page-1/#comment-24557</link>
		<dc:creator>Joshua Daniel Franklin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Oct 2009 03:20:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hugeasscity.com/?p=2109#comment-24557</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m a holy trinity. (By the way, Dan Bertolet has politely requested posters use their real names... I&#039;m usually joshuadf elsewhere.) 

Yes, U-Link converts bus riders to rail riders. I&#039;m not sure why this is a problem. A train carries more people for less energy, and doesn&#039;t get stuck in traffic either. The money for those buses will be used for transit along different routes. If more funding was available I&#039;d love to see a much larger system including Tacoma and Everett (not to mention West Seattle and Ballard), but since funds are limited doesn&#039;t it make sense to take advantage of FTA grants for high ridership corridors? I&#039;d love to help on the funding, but I&#039;m not actually billionaire.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m a holy trinity. (By the way, Dan Bertolet has politely requested posters use their real names&#8230; I&#8217;m usually joshuadf elsewhere.) </p>
<p>Yes, U-Link converts bus riders to rail riders. I&#8217;m not sure why this is a problem. A train carries more people for less energy, and doesn&#8217;t get stuck in traffic either. The money for those buses will be used for transit along different routes. If more funding was available I&#8217;d love to see a much larger system including Tacoma and Everett (not to mention West Seattle and Ballard), but since funds are limited doesn&#8217;t it make sense to take advantage of FTA grants for high ridership corridors? I&#8217;d love to help on the funding, but I&#8217;m not actually billionaire.</p>
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		<title>By: Wells</title>
		<link>http://hugeasscity.com/2009/10/05/thank-you-sir-may-i-have-another/comment-page-1/#comment-24475</link>
		<dc:creator>Wells</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Oct 2009 00:28:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hugeasscity.com/?p=2109#comment-24475</guid>
		<description>Matt, you are not an Engineer. You are a Wannabee Engineer. Good luck with your lessons. Maybe someday you&#039;ll earn the moniker. 

Joshua Daniel Franklin, are you one person or three? Why not simplify with Josh Dan Frank or any &#039;one&#039; of those names? Going after federal grant money does not necessarily produce good engineering. Admit that U-link ridership is based on converting bus riders to rail riders. How does the cost-benefit analysis justify the expense? You&#039;re not earning your way toward a responsible position in gainful employment by dismissing pertinent information. Want to see the Bel-Red TOD development proceed? Divise a way to cut Link LRT costs through Bellevue and a reliable source of funding. I&#039;ve been working on that, but you seem to be sitting on the sideline harping about light rail being good. Thanks a lot. Boy, are you ever helpful. Wow.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Matt, you are not an Engineer. You are a Wannabee Engineer. Good luck with your lessons. Maybe someday you&#8217;ll earn the moniker. </p>
<p>Joshua Daniel Franklin, are you one person or three? Why not simplify with Josh Dan Frank or any &#8216;one&#8217; of those names? Going after federal grant money does not necessarily produce good engineering. Admit that U-link ridership is based on converting bus riders to rail riders. How does the cost-benefit analysis justify the expense? You&#8217;re not earning your way toward a responsible position in gainful employment by dismissing pertinent information. Want to see the Bel-Red TOD development proceed? Divise a way to cut Link LRT costs through Bellevue and a reliable source of funding. I&#8217;ve been working on that, but you seem to be sitting on the sideline harping about light rail being good. Thanks a lot. Boy, are you ever helpful. Wow.</p>
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		<title>By: Joshua Daniel Franklin</title>
		<link>http://hugeasscity.com/2009/10/05/thank-you-sir-may-i-have-another/comment-page-1/#comment-24389</link>
		<dc:creator>Joshua Daniel Franklin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Oct 2009 22:18:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hugeasscity.com/?p=2109#comment-24389</guid>
		<description>Wells, if you&#039;re advocating better planning in the suburbs, we have at least one master planned redevopment on the way:
http://hugeasscity.com/2008/09/24/bel-red-corridor-tod-planning/
Also, FTA grants are for routes such as University Link with demonstrated ridership potential, not what might attract better land use in the future. I&#039;d be happy to support county or state money going to promote inner-ring suburban infill, though.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wells, if you&#8217;re advocating better planning in the suburbs, we have at least one master planned redevopment on the way:<br />
<a href="http://hugeasscity.com/2008/09/24/bel-red-corridor-tod-planning/" rel="nofollow">http://hugeasscity.com/2008/09/24/bel-red-corridor-tod-planning/</a><br />
Also, FTA grants are for routes such as University Link with demonstrated ridership potential, not what might attract better land use in the future. I&#8217;d be happy to support county or state money going to promote inner-ring suburban infill, though.</p>
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		<title>By: Matt the Engineer</title>
		<link>http://hugeasscity.com/2009/10/05/thank-you-sir-may-i-have-another/comment-page-1/#comment-24349</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt the Engineer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Oct 2009 21:03:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hugeasscity.com/?p=2109#comment-24349</guid>
		<description>&quot;When light rail is brought to the suburbs, this changes station area economics and brings jobs, thus reducing the need for long-distance commuting.&quot;  Sadly, adding jobs to the suburbs increases the need for long-distance commuting.  There is no strong incentive to force people to move close to their jobs when there&#039;s cheap parking and fat highways.  And there is no way to efficiently connect suburbs by transit.  Sure, some will live in the city and commute by rail out to the suburbs, but far more will live in other suburbs.

&quot;planning that brought most cities to their current traffic overload&quot;  Ugh.  Cars are not the answer.  You can&#039;t build enough freeways to ever reduce traffic - you&#039;ll just encourage people to move further away.  The more roads you remove (causing &quot;traffic overload&quot;), the more you encourage people to live close to work.  If you really wanted your built-up suburb idea to work you&#039;d need to remove almost all of the highways in and out of that suburb.

&quot;small cities, townships, neighorhoods and commercial centers have far more need for transit options than inner-city Seattle&quot;  Public transit is inefficient with low housing densities.  Our region has embraced suburban busing despite it&#039;s high cost, and we&#039;ve reached cost limits.  However, if you&#039;re talking about 
 dense towns and cities with local transit, then I can agree with that.  But you would have to be talking about city-level density.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;When light rail is brought to the suburbs, this changes station area economics and brings jobs, thus reducing the need for long-distance commuting.&#8221;  Sadly, adding jobs to the suburbs increases the need for long-distance commuting.  There is no strong incentive to force people to move close to their jobs when there&#8217;s cheap parking and fat highways.  And there is no way to efficiently connect suburbs by transit.  Sure, some will live in the city and commute by rail out to the suburbs, but far more will live in other suburbs.</p>
<p>&#8220;planning that brought most cities to their current traffic overload&#8221;  Ugh.  Cars are not the answer.  You can&#8217;t build enough freeways to ever reduce traffic &#8211; you&#8217;ll just encourage people to move further away.  The more roads you remove (causing &#8220;traffic overload&#8221;), the more you encourage people to live close to work.  If you really wanted your built-up suburb idea to work you&#8217;d need to remove almost all of the highways in and out of that suburb.</p>
<p>&#8220;small cities, townships, neighorhoods and commercial centers have far more need for transit options than inner-city Seattle&#8221;  Public transit is inefficient with low housing densities.  Our region has embraced suburban busing despite it&#8217;s high cost, and we&#8217;ve reached cost limits.  However, if you&#8217;re talking about<br />
 dense towns and cities with local transit, then I can agree with that.  But you would have to be talking about city-level density.</p>
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		<title>By: Wells</title>
		<link>http://hugeasscity.com/2009/10/05/thank-you-sir-may-i-have-another/comment-page-1/#comment-24315</link>
		<dc:creator>Wells</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Oct 2009 19:41:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hugeasscity.com/?p=2109#comment-24315</guid>
		<description>Matt, sprawl is already in place and generating more long-distance travel than roads and transit can handle. I&#039;m saying suburban development patterns must change, diversify, infill, no way around it. When light rail is brought to the suburbs, this changes station area economics and brings jobs, thus reducing the need for long-distance commuting. Light rail also improves station area economics by making travel there attractive during off-rush hours, thus balancing transit rider demand around the clock.  

You&#039;re saying do not consider the suburbs. Your idea is no different than planning that brought most cities to their current traffic overload. Your engineering theory is Old School. 

As for absolute language, you do that more than me. You&#039;re the one setting limits on transit design. Downtown Seattle occupies roughly 1/20 the acreage of the metropolitan area within which many small cities, townships, neighorhoods and commercial centers have far more need for transit options than inner-city Seattle. The suburbs also have a more complex travel demand that involves &#039;cross-county&#039; travel. Suburbanites have no choice. The only way to reduce their need for long-distance travel is to guide growth according to planning theories that PSRC pays lip service to. There&#039;s a hell of a lot of surburban parking lot that should be scraped off and rededicated to land-uses that complement and better serve surrounding neighborhoods. It&#039;s the definition of local economies. Maybe you&#039;ve heard of local economies? I&#039;m a lot more like McGinn that you realize. He&#039;d make a good mayor, that&#039;s for sure.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Matt, sprawl is already in place and generating more long-distance travel than roads and transit can handle. I&#8217;m saying suburban development patterns must change, diversify, infill, no way around it. When light rail is brought to the suburbs, this changes station area economics and brings jobs, thus reducing the need for long-distance commuting. Light rail also improves station area economics by making travel there attractive during off-rush hours, thus balancing transit rider demand around the clock.  </p>
<p>You&#8217;re saying do not consider the suburbs. Your idea is no different than planning that brought most cities to their current traffic overload. Your engineering theory is Old School. </p>
<p>As for absolute language, you do that more than me. You&#8217;re the one setting limits on transit design. Downtown Seattle occupies roughly 1/20 the acreage of the metropolitan area within which many small cities, townships, neighorhoods and commercial centers have far more need for transit options than inner-city Seattle. The suburbs also have a more complex travel demand that involves &#8216;cross-county&#8217; travel. Suburbanites have no choice. The only way to reduce their need for long-distance travel is to guide growth according to planning theories that PSRC pays lip service to. There&#8217;s a hell of a lot of surburban parking lot that should be scraped off and rededicated to land-uses that complement and better serve surrounding neighborhoods. It&#8217;s the definition of local economies. Maybe you&#8217;ve heard of local economies? I&#8217;m a lot more like McGinn that you realize. He&#8217;d make a good mayor, that&#8217;s for sure.</p>
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		<title>By: eldan</title>
		<link>http://hugeasscity.com/2009/10/05/thank-you-sir-may-i-have-another/comment-page-1/#comment-24035</link>
		<dc:creator>eldan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Oct 2009 06:11:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hugeasscity.com/?p=2109#comment-24035</guid>
		<description>Have any of the &quot;boo, transit can&#039;t handle the unevenness of a rush-hour pattern&quot; commenters actually considered how poorly car commuting handles it?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Have any of the &#8220;boo, transit can&#8217;t handle the unevenness of a rush-hour pattern&#8221; commenters actually considered how poorly car commuting handles it?</p>
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		<title>By: Matt the Engineer</title>
		<link>http://hugeasscity.com/2009/10/05/thank-you-sir-may-i-have-another/comment-page-1/#comment-23868</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt the Engineer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Oct 2009 00:20:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hugeasscity.com/?p=2109#comment-23868</guid>
		<description>[Wells], do you really think adding long-distance commuting options is a solution to sprawl?  City-based transit is far more friendly to density.  

You use a lot of absolute language about how Seattle &quot;should&quot; be.  Why?  Because it&#039;s new?  Building up the suburbs leads to sprawl.  Your way is not McGinn&#039;s way, and this discussion doesn&#039;t involve the viaduct.  

I&#039;ve noticed your continued lack of an option that will reduce sprawl, instead of increase it.  I&#039;m not terribly interested in more tangential discussion - please provide this option.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[Wells], do you really think adding long-distance commuting options is a solution to sprawl?  City-based transit is far more friendly to density.  </p>
<p>You use a lot of absolute language about how Seattle &#8220;should&#8221; be.  Why?  Because it&#8217;s new?  Building up the suburbs leads to sprawl.  Your way is not McGinn&#8217;s way, and this discussion doesn&#8217;t involve the viaduct.  </p>
<p>I&#8217;ve noticed your continued lack of an option that will reduce sprawl, instead of increase it.  I&#8217;m not terribly interested in more tangential discussion &#8211; please provide this option.</p>
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